Comments on: Good God, who is this guy?

By: leta

leta — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:35:57 +0000

Clearly you have a better understanding of the male mind than men do violet…
I love the arbitrary distinctions its just hilarious really.

By: violet

violet — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:29:42 +0000

…Even when they clearly point out they don’t hate women.

“I don’t hate women,” he said, “I just want to do things that would hurt them very badly.”

“Have you?”

“Occasionally,” he admitted. “But certainly, I have never felt hate.”

By: zingerella

zingerella — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:26:26 +0000

It would also be very helpful, leta, if you could both understand and articulate the difference between a cultural critique (that is to say a discussion of the culture in which men and women participate) and a gender or gender expression.

Often, when feminists are discussing cultural mores and trends (such as rape culture or patriarchal mores) they are not referring to men as a group so much as to a series of trends and behaviours in which men and women participate, and which grant different powers and privileges to different people based on (among other factors, and in no particular order) gender, gender expression, sexuality, economic power, class markers, skin tone, perceived culture of origin, physical strength/health, age, and conformity to socially determined standards of beauty.

By: Lisa Kansas

Lisa Kansas — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 08:25:29 +0000

leta, do you think in future you could make comments such as the above, like, all one comment? Makes it easier and less messy in the thread, kwim. In this case, I will number your comments and address them one by one.

1. Some pornography does indeed objectify and dehumanize women, and it is often very popular porn that does so. If you are not aware of this, try viewing “Animal Trainer” and read about its popularity. Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Trainer_(Series) So are you attempting to claim that some does not, all does not (already demonstrated to be untrue), most does not..? Please specify, and provide corroboration.

2. How common is it for men to objectify women? That’s really hard to say. However, it is not “rare.” Most men I know have done so verifiably more than once in my presence, making it impossible to believe that it is “rare.” If you don’t believe this…well. I don’t think you know men very well, the way they behave in majority-male environments. I have spend a fair amount of time in the military and in heavy industry; I have. Can you explain what it is in your experience, or lack thereof, that makes you believe it is “rare?”

3. Oh, “rape culture.” That one deserves an entire post of its own, so I’m going to leave it alone here for now.

4. Inferring “racism,” for instance, as someone’s motive does not mean that the person so inferring is psychic or deluded; it can be quite obvious. It is the same with “misogyny,” “misandry,” or any other stupid prejudice. Do you, yourself, never know why anyone says or does anything they do around you?

5. You are, sadly, required to provide specifics, or you will be kicked off the comment thread for baseless overgeneralizations. Your choice!

By: leta

leta — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:48:32 +0000

If I use specifics you will say “that isn’t mainstream feminism” if i use generalities well that isn’t my feminism …

By: leta

leta — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:21:24 +0000

indeed the idea of “misogyny” as a motive for anyone is clearly inferring you know someones motives better than they know themselves. Even when they clearly point out they don’t hate women.

By: leta

leta — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:19:59 +0000

“rape culture”. The idea that society (run by men) accepts and indeed condones rape.

By: leta

leta — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:18:42 +0000

i never said no man ever objectifies any woman ever.

I don’t believe it is common at all though. It is rare that anyone would want to have sex with an object.

By: leta

leta — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:17:17 +0000

“Pornography is about objectification and dehumanizing women”

By: Lisa Kansas

Lisa Kansas — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 04:49:32 +0000

You could go on, but it might get you in trouble, unless you stop making broad brushstrokes of statements, impossible to either refute or support, and start makin’ some specific ones. For instance, you could claim that “no man ever objectifies any woman,” though I hope you won’t because I don’t know any men who’d buy that one, much less any women, feminist or otherwise. So, would you like to make a specific claim that mainstream feminism makes about men in general, that involves “knowing” something intimate about the way a man thinks or feels, that most men would refute?