I’m very much in favor of open communication as to what people want or don’t want, saying whether something is or isn’t okay. A general “tell me what you like, or what you want more of, and tell me if something isn’t going to work for you tonight” before things get past a certain point is a good thing. The “would you like fries with that?” approach doesn’t usually get very useful or honest answers though.

And if a “yes” turns into a “no”, fair enough. At least things got to the point where a decision could be made on that score. Either you’re not doing that right then, or not with that person.

Maybe “always” is a little too dogmatic. Certainly people who are inclined more toward the autistic end of things can be literally incapable of interpreting body language at all. In general, though… If words are the main defense, people who want to listen to the words will do so, people who don’t will make up weaselly rationalizations to get around them. Body language is much harder to weasel around– IF it’s being paid attention to in the first place, I mean.

I’m not asking for a formal legal request: more like simple things such as “Is this okay?” It can be done seductively, trust me. If you are interpretting body language, than for the love of godless, actually KNOW how to interpret body language. A passive body and a “yeah, I guess” is not really a yes.

Absolutely. Except I’d go so far as to say that the verbal cues really don’t matter so much. I think being sensitive to your partner’s body language is ALWAYS the most key factor of all. Tom, this may help clear up those gray areas.

I still boggle at the excuses that get made. “Oh, but Some Girls say no or push my hand away as a test.”

Exactly. Someone who chooses not to read body language not only is (probably willfully) blind to these sorts of clear non-verbal signals; they also won’t choose to be able to read the silent “no” in an unenthusiastic verbal “Yes”. So the supposed verbal clarity doesn’t necessarily buy anything.

Non-verbal communication is still communication. Using words mostly won’t hurt, but sometimes words mislead, in ways that the body never does. I feel, actually, that words aren’t necessary at all — though of course honesty always is.

Excuse me? On what planet does someone say “no” as a test, and decide that the way you *pass* that test is to totally ignore their stated wishes?

Sure it can. So what? If at the time of asking, the answer is not “Ohmy yes!” then the activity in question is best kept for some other time, or some other lover.

Something that’s a “yes” one day may be a “no” on a different day, too.

That’s why you need to take the time to make sure every blessed time.

If your partner isn’t saying “Ohmyyes!” then you need to stop and find out what you partner would prefer.

There’ just no grey area to that.

But I think the problem goes beyond gender roles. People going beyond that (GLBTQ whatever) might be able to provide some insight on that, I don’t know. I still think that sex and relationships would maintain some of “the game” even so. A great deal of import in human relationships of any kind takes place in the grey area, enough so that I’m suspicious of the viability of the blunt, open, honest “would you like fries with that?” approach. Everybody lies. Rarely does anybody answer a “What are you thinking?” question honestly (usually either they aren’t sure or they’re going to tell you what they want you to hear.) Most of us will sometimes hedge or play safe (do I call or not? Do I initiate or not? Is this okay or not?) We all don’t know what we want at least some of the time. We all sometimes think or feel things that we won’t say. Ask a yes or no question, get a yes or no response, reflecting the situation only at that point in time. Single event, 50-50 probability of either outcome.

The grey area leads to problems, sometimes serious ones (when understandings of consent don’t match up, for example). But it also has solutions. A “maybe” can be a “yes” a few weeks later, even though it might have been a “no” out the gate. It’s not a bad idea, I think, in a relationship that’s headed towards sex, to always leave something out there for both people to think about for next time, even if it is frustrating in the short-term. If he doesn’t get what he wants that time, she doesn’t either, and might well figure out what she wants by the next time to do something about it (assuming a next time). And if she doesn’t want it period, then he’s wasting his time anyways.