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	<title>Comments on: All These Posts about the Abstinence Clearinghouse Have Inspired Me</title>
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	<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Thene</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66843</link>
		<dc:creator>Thene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 05:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66843</guid>
		<description>I found the SCUM Manifesto a great read.  It's funny and apt, and you can ever after be dangling it out at the world, saying "World, please, show me this isn't true?  Please?  World, I'll give you a cookie if you prove to me that this isn't true..."  Some days, the world gets its cookie.  Other days, not.

&lt;i&gt;I only object to people who try to promote it as some kind of Holy Grail/cure-all for *everybody.*&lt;/i&gt;

I think there's another side to that coin; people, corporations etc. who promote SEX! as some kind of Holy Grail/cure-all for everybody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the SCUM Manifesto a great read.  It&#8217;s funny and apt, and you can ever after be dangling it out at the world, saying &#8220;World, please, show me this isn&#8217;t true?  Please?  World, I&#8217;ll give you a cookie if you prove to me that this isn&#8217;t true&#8230;&#8221;  Some days, the world gets its cookie.  Other days, not.</p>
<p><i>I only object to people who try to promote it as some kind of Holy Grail/cure-all for *everybody.*</i></p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s another side to that coin; people, corporations etc. who promote SEX! as some kind of Holy Grail/cure-all for everybody.</p>
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		<title>By: junk science</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66817</link>
		<dc:creator>junk science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66817</guid>
		<description>Abstinence finds its de facto justification in religion, but its special poignancy for the socially inept is that it makes a mundane inability to get laid into a shining virtue. You're not a loser because you're not having sex, you're a Good Person. Also the Dawn Edens who seem to genuinely believe that because you can't guarantee every experience will be a good one, you shouldn't have any experiences at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abstinence finds its de facto justification in religion, but its special poignancy for the socially inept is that it makes a mundane inability to get laid into a shining virtue. You&#8217;re not a loser because you&#8217;re not having sex, you&#8217;re a Good Person. Also the Dawn Edens who seem to genuinely believe that because you can&#8217;t guarantee every experience will be a good one, you shouldn&#8217;t have any experiences at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Marcotte</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66815</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Marcotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66815</guid>
		<description>My personal theory is that a lot of the abstinence-only shills realize full well that most people will fail.  What they want, in that case, if for the majority of people to be punished, to make the few who make it across the marriage finish line virginity intact seem all that much holier and different than the rest of us diseased freaks.  

They also are fans of the shotgun wedding.  Like you said, the fact that marriage ages are going up is a point of great consternation for wingnuts, because that means that women are entering marriage with much more power over what happens than before.  New wives now are much more likely to have their own money, a more formed personality, and self esteem that prevents the men from ruling the marriage with an iron fist.  The hope is that by returning the country to a widespread get-pregnant-and-married-at-17 status, women will exit the workforce and largely be a lot more compliant, submissive, and broken than we are now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My personal theory is that a lot of the abstinence-only shills realize full well that most people will fail.  What they want, in that case, if for the majority of people to be punished, to make the few who make it across the marriage finish line virginity intact seem all that much holier and different than the rest of us diseased freaks.  </p>
<p>They also are fans of the shotgun wedding.  Like you said, the fact that marriage ages are going up is a point of great consternation for wingnuts, because that means that women are entering marriage with much more power over what happens than before.  New wives now are much more likely to have their own money, a more formed personality, and self esteem that prevents the men from ruling the marriage with an iron fist.  The hope is that by returning the country to a widespread get-pregnant-and-married-at-17 status, women will exit the workforce and largely be a lot more compliant, submissive, and broken than we are now.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa KS</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66807</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa KS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 12:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66807</guid>
		<description>Goodness, you are correct...one of these days I will have to slog through the entire Manifesto.  (sigh) Not exactly looking FORWARD to it but...in the interests of being well-informed, I should...

Yep, I have absolutely no issues with anyone who wants to practice abstinence for whatever reasons seem best to them either--I only object to people who try to promote it as some kind of Holy Grail/cure-all for *everybody.*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goodness, you are correct&#8230;one of these days I will have to slog through the entire Manifesto.  (sigh) Not exactly looking FORWARD to it but&#8230;in the interests of being well-informed, I should&#8230;</p>
<p>Yep, I have absolutely no issues with anyone who wants to practice abstinence for whatever reasons seem best to them either&#8211;I only object to people who try to promote it as some kind of Holy Grail/cure-all for *everybody.*</p>
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		<title>By: Thene</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66786</link>
		<dc:creator>Thene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 05:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66786</guid>
		<description>No, Solanas specifically said that SCUM was through with lesbianism:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Unhampered by propriety, niceness, discretion, public opinion, 'morals', the respect of assholes, always funky, dirty, low-down SCUM gets around... and around and around... they've seen the whole show -- every bit of it -- the fucking scene, the dyke scene -- they've covered the whole waterfront, been under every dock and pier -- the peter pier, the pussy pier... you've got to go through a lot of sex to get to anti-sex, and SCUM's been through it all, and they're now ready for a new show; they want to crawl out from other the dock, move, take off, sink out. But SCUM doesn't yet prevail; SCUM's still in the gutter of our 'society', which, if it's not deflected from its present course and if the Bomb doesn't drop on it, will hump itself to death.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I've seen the same sentiment come up in other feminist places - someone called Hecate brought it up on &lt;a href="http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=311" rel="nofollow"&gt;this FSF thread&lt;/a&gt; a while ago (can't link to individual comments there any more, aargh).  So the idea's still out there, and I've no problem with women who see abstinence as &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; feminist option...it just ain't mine, and I'll tell them that if they try to tell me it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Solanas specifically said that SCUM was through with lesbianism:</p>
<blockquote><p>Unhampered by propriety, niceness, discretion, public opinion, &#8216;morals&#8217;, the respect of assholes, always funky, dirty, low-down SCUM gets around&#8230; and around and around&#8230; they&#8217;ve seen the whole show &#8212; every bit of it &#8212; the fucking scene, the dyke scene &#8212; they&#8217;ve covered the whole waterfront, been under every dock and pier &#8212; the peter pier, the pussy pier&#8230; you&#8217;ve got to go through a lot of sex to get to anti-sex, and SCUM&#8217;s been through it all, and they&#8217;re now ready for a new show; they want to crawl out from other the dock, move, take off, sink out. But SCUM doesn&#8217;t yet prevail; SCUM&#8217;s still in the gutter of our &#8217;society&#8217;, which, if it&#8217;s not deflected from its present course and if the Bomb doesn&#8217;t drop on it, will hump itself to death.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen the same sentiment come up in other feminist places - someone called Hecate brought it up on <a href="http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=311" rel="nofollow">this FSF thread</a> a while ago (can&#8217;t link to individual comments there any more, aargh).  So the idea&#8217;s still out there, and I&#8217;ve no problem with women who see abstinence as <i>their</i> feminist option&#8230;it just ain&#8217;t mine, and I&#8217;ll tell them that if they try to tell me it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Kansas</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66781</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Kansas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 04:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66781</guid>
		<description>I haven't read the SCUM Manifesto in its entirety, but I suspect that what she was referring to was more *heterosexual* sex, not *all* sex--my post was heavily slewed towards the heteronormative as that is my orientation and what I feel most comfortable making pronouncements about thereby, but I'm thinking what I was saying in the post applies pretty well towards homosexuality as well.  I think she was unable to separate heterosexual sex from heterosexual domination...a point of view I can empathize with if not adopt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read the SCUM Manifesto in its entirety, but I suspect that what she was referring to was more *heterosexual* sex, not *all* sex&#8211;my post was heavily slewed towards the heteronormative as that is my orientation and what I feel most comfortable making pronouncements about thereby, but I&#8217;m thinking what I was saying in the post applies pretty well towards homosexuality as well.  I think she was unable to separate heterosexual sex from heterosexual domination&#8230;a point of view I can empathize with if not adopt.</p>
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		<title>By: Thene</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66764</link>
		<dc:creator>Thene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 21:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2008/05/11/all-these-posts-about-the-abstinence-clearinghouse-have-inspired-me/#comment-66764</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There is no abstinence movement that is not based in an organized patriarchal religion. If anyone out there is aware of one that does not originate in an organized patriarchal religion, please pass that info on to me, cause I couldn’t find any.&lt;/i&gt;

It sometimes happens on the fringes of feminism, notably in the &lt;a href="http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;SCUM Manifesto&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Sex is not part of a relationship: on the contrary, it is a solitary experience, non-creative, a gross waste of time. The female can easily -- far more easily than she may think -- condition away her sex drive, leaving her completely cool and cerebral and free to pursue truly worthy relationships and activities; but the male, who seems to dig women sexually and who seeks out constantly to arouse them, stimulates the highly sexed female to frenzies of lust, throwing her into a sex bag from which few women ever escape.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Apart from that, all you seem to see is what you describe - people who pretend to be secular but aren't really.  :/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There is no abstinence movement that is not based in an organized patriarchal religion. If anyone out there is aware of one that does not originate in an organized patriarchal religion, please pass that info on to me, cause I couldn’t find any.</i></p>
<p>It sometimes happens on the fringes of feminism, notably in the <a href="http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm" rel="nofollow">SCUM Manifesto</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sex is not part of a relationship: on the contrary, it is a solitary experience, non-creative, a gross waste of time. The female can easily &#8212; far more easily than she may think &#8212; condition away her sex drive, leaving her completely cool and cerebral and free to pursue truly worthy relationships and activities; but the male, who seems to dig women sexually and who seeks out constantly to arouse them, stimulates the highly sexed female to frenzies of lust, throwing her into a sex bag from which few women ever escape.</p></blockquote>
<p>Apart from that, all you seem to see is what you describe - people who pretend to be secular but aren&#8217;t really.  :/</p>
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