Actions Should Match our Words (And Words Should Match our Actions)
Published by Antigone May 8th, 2008 in Punkass!, Advice, Dudes Something has been bothering me lately, within the feminist blogsphere. Feminism is about equality between the genders, and by extension equality between all peoples. We routinely bemoan the treatment women get in the rest of the world, and (rightfully) call out allies and enemies for using sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and fatphobic frames and insults (calling Ann Coulter a trannie for instance). No, this is not going to be another post about white feminists and women of color feminists (that topic has been discussed by far smarter voices than I). This instead will be a “What about the Menz” post that generally I hate.
I’ve noticed in that in certain threads, (such as this one at Shakesville) there seems to be a pattern. Regulars start to talk about the various points in the case, and we use our general knowledge to put forth a greater understanding of the case, with a lot of people chiming in the make a funny comment or a general statement of agreement. So far, so good; but then a troll will come in to make some sort of ridiculous statement (women lie about rape for instance). People will jump all over him/her, and trolly will come back with increasingly ridiculous statements. All of this is fine (except now we are all off the original topic of conversation, instead playing a fun-but-unproductive game of taunt-the-troll), but what tends to come next is the part that I object to most strongly to. Someone, and probably more than one someone, will start to question the trolls penis-size, sexual prowess, or general odds of getting laid.
Feminist object to the language of the virgin-whore dichotomy, which treats sexual women as disposable, and puts ridiculous, contradictory standards on those who happen to fall on the virgin side. We object to the sexual double standard that declares sexual women sluts and sexual men as studs. But, if we want to demonstrate true commitment to these obscenely harmful sexual standards, we need to stop using them in our framing of insults. Sexual prowess is not a sign of intelligence, maturity, or worth. Penis size does not have anything to do with character, or insecurity: a man could be insecure and truly have a “monster cock”*, or be a confident individual with a less-than-average sized one. And while true that one might assume that demonstration of idiotic tendencies would reduce one’s odds of getting and sustaining a long-term relationship, we all know that it is not necessarily so.
I know, generally, that feminists all know this to be true. I know that comments about alleged penis size are designed to insult them on their own framework, for more a stinging factor. But these trolls would probably not like to be called “gay” either, and feminists refrain from using that framework out of an effort to not feed homophobia. We should follow the same logic when using sexual-based slurs: and not fall into their trap. We lose credibility when we do; and MRAs will pounce on it. We actually do have to show a commitment to gender equality, and it starts with what we say about men.**
*As a funny aside, I still giggle that someone used that unironically on feminist thread.
** I am not perfect at this either. When someone continues to profess their supposed sexual prowess, I’m tempted to think they are seriously trying to compensate. But while the low blow is the easy strike, we need to avoid it like the plague.
I agree with the penis size stuff. However, I see nothing wrong with questioning their sexual prowess…in my experience (admittedly not superhigh in terms of the sheer numbers of *different* men, but I’ve spent several years each with one man at a time–you get very sexually intimate that way) the men with the most sexual prowess are the men who truly admire the many facets of the woman they are with and have the *sharing* of intense sexual pleasure as their highest goal. No way has any MRA got that goin’ on, nor is that any kind of double standard to note aloud. I think it’s probably pointless to insult them on their basic probability of getting laid, period, as that’s probably about the same as any other guy of their general age, appearance, personal hygiene level and articulateness. However, it’s perfectly honest and nonsexist to sneer at the extreme lack of possibility that they’ll ever be in a decent relationship with anybody but a doormat, and even that one won’t be honest unless she’s got serious mental health issues.
It frustrates me no end too how easily folks let trolls derail them. God knows I understand the lure of easy mockery, but we’re rewarding these guys with attention. No wonder they keep coming back. (sigh)
Also to take into consideration are men who are “on the fence,” so to speak. Men who are open to hearing more about feminism, but have heard a lot of bad things about it and could go either way. No idea how numerous they are but I was one. On the internet, we have more of an audience than we may realize…
I’m all for equality, but I’m also a huge fan of hurling insults. Thats how I was raised, thats how my friends are, we love to talk shit. It’s a sign of affection when we point out your flaws in the most humiliating ways we can think of. I realize there is a big difference between telling rude jokes with my friends and leaving comments on the internet, but I just hope we don’t get to a point where we don’t think we can tell a joke because it might offend someone.
Although yeah insulting trolls just makes the problem worse. But as far as insults and jokes in real life, ya gotta amuse yourself, if its at other peoples expense thats fine with me so long as you can laugh when the table is turned and its you turn to be laughed at.
Or, maybe, the problem is the insulting at all. To me that sorta seems to be buying into the culture of intimidation that defines patriarchy.
I have a friend who is choosing to make it a habit to say “Wow, that guy must have a huge penis!” whenever she sees someone’s “compensation” in the form of a Hummer, ridiculous sports car, oversized SUV, vehicle with souped up stereo that’s shaking the whole car… etc. She says it loudly too, even when the vehicle is parked with no owner/driver to be seen. I find I’m not opposed to the plan, in fact it sort of tickles me. Of course in these cases the person involved has chosen to display their… assets… in a way that is reminiscent of penis measurement contests - and their environmentally harmful and/or ridiculous choice of transportation is worthy of ridicule. I don’t know, am I just making excuses for something offensive that I personally find funny, or is this practice “not all that bad”?
I am a firm believer that the Patriarchy is a cultural construct which can be weakened over time.
Virility-based put-downs, on the other hand– that’s a lost cause. That shit is hardwired into our DNA.
Besides, somehow all this taking the high road stuff seems a little bit– I don’t know– wrong, taking place as it does under the banner of a giant raised middle finger on a site called “Punkassblog”. (But maybe that’s just me.)
reticent, you know, “offensive” and “funny” aren’t mutually exclusive. Two great tastes that taste great together.
Bringing up penis size is hypocritical (if irresistible considering how obsessed some wingnuts seem to be with it) because you’re insulting otherwise decent men with small dicks just as you would be insulting all gay people by making pronouncements on a troll’s sexual orientation. However, I don’t see anything wrong with suggesting that the reason some asshole hates women is that they won’t sleep with him. Being attractive to potential sex partners isn’t a patriarchally-imposed virtue, like avoiding sex so people won’t think you’re a slut. If you’re such a woman-hating asshole that you don’t even know why women can’t stand you, you should be mortified, and you deserve to hear about it. If all other sex-starved misogynists are being insulted by proxy, so much the better.
It is frustrating enough when the subject of a thread is changed by a troll to all about the troll. When it degenerates to commenters talking like a troll to a troll the thread is dead.
I used to be a sucker for a troll almost every time, I am somewhat embarassed to admit. Now I just send a copy of their Fresh Manly Wizdum to trollbusterxtra, and the thread has a chance to survive.
I agree completely with the sentiment that disparaging someone’s BODY PART is a good tactic, no matter who the person or what the part.
I think there is very little difference between “She must have a big loose cunt” and “he must have a tiny penis”.
I mean, C’mon, Feminazis! We can do better than that! It is a terrible myopia, that we can FEEL the insult of….words that insult US, but think it is fine to make equally shallow insults against Myogynists. Ones that are as ridiculous as “gay” or “lame”. The size of a man’s penis has nothing to do with anything, and resembles insults like “fat cow” for pertinance (ie it is totally not pertinent).
It also sends the message that having a HUGE COCK is the greatest thing in the world, and having a small cock is the WORST thing in the WORLD. Is that a message we really want to send? Do we really want a world full of guys with Cock-size complexes? Because I thought that was part of the problem!
Let’s say that if you are a misgynistic asshat, you suck in bed (it’s already a flawed premise, as I very well know). But that still does not mean that all people who are bad in bed are misgynistic asshats. There can be any number of reasons that a person sucks at bed, and you are slurring them with the same brush, AND bringing up something that is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. I’m all about insulting their intelligence, and accusing them of them of being misgynistic asshats. But that does not have anything to do with their relative skills in bed.