But the business interests at stake are too huge. The neo-cons’ “Project for a New American Century” will march on. If you think same rules won’t apply to the next president, I’ve got some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I don’t think that Clinton and Obama not saying we’ll be in Iraq in 100 years is “dishonest,” I think they genuinely don’t believe we will be, and I don’t see in either of them any desire whatsoever to prolong our stay there.

Of course they’re not saying that, or even thinking it. I didn’t say they were.

Now it’s true both of the democratic candidates give lip service to getting out of Iraq; that this is a marked rhetorical difference from McCain. When it comes to the details, though, both Obama and Clinton intend to declare the war “over”, yet leave American military troops in the country for an indeterminate amount of time (code for “never”). And don’t forget the ridiculously huge U.S. Embassy Complex they’re building right now. The world’s largest. Perhaps I should be putting “Embassy” in scare quotes, actually.

But don’t worry. Regardless of whether we’re “officially” at war in Iraq, it’ll be just as forgotten as Afghanistan as soon as we declare war with Iran.

I agree that it’s massively disappointing that we don’t have any truly dove-ish candidates.

Well if you’re silly enough to want to save billions or trillions of war dollars and spend them on actual citizens of the U.S., you’re clearly not a “serious” candidate.

Quin: Hmm…you’re not really saying why you think Clinton and Obama aren’t any better than McCain, though. He’s “honest” about his warmongering–I don’t think that Clinton and Obama not saying we’ll be in Iraq in 100 years is “dishonest,” I think they genuinely don’t believe we will be, and I don’t see in either of them any desire whatsoever to prolong our stay there. Have you seen/heard something from either of them that I haven’t? I agree that it’s massively disappointing that we don’t have any truly dove-ish candidates. And one of the inbuilt defects of our particular political system is that in order to gain the highest position of power in it, one must actively pursue it to the exclusion of nearly all else, which generally you don’t find in people other than those who, yeah, want power most.

Chris and Texas: Word.

And I don’t believe 99% of the people who say they’d vote for McCain if their candidate doesn’t get the nomination.

I don’t CARE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT EITHER OF THEM, they are each, on their weasliest, least admirable, most politician-y day 1,000,000 times better than McCain.

I’m not sure I agree.

On a domestic front, neither Clinton nor Obama has shown the slightest interest in rolling back any of the massive consolidations of Executive Branch power which have occurred over the last seven years. Neither of them talk about restoring our right to Habeus Corpus, for instance. Habeus Corpus, which is the foundation of a just legal system, and no longer truly exists in America. I can only presume that Clinton and Obama want to have their chance to enjoy all that extra power as well.

On an international front, Clinton won’t promise a date of withdrawal from Iraq, and Obama’s plan is so full of loopholes that we’ll never get out. Meanwhile, with regards to Iran, Clinton makes it clear that she’s happy to “totally obliterate them” (yes, I know the context in which she said it– it doesn’t help much) and Obama continues to insist that “all options are on the table”, including nuclear.

Even though John McCain’s insane and evil, at least there’s a certain kind of honesty there when he says things like “we’ll be in Iraq for a hundred years”. No, I’m not planning to vote for him. But just sayin’.

And if we conveniently find ourselves suddenly at war with Iran come October, it really doesn’t matter which Democrat you’ve previously been supporting, because then there’s no way that our blinkered population is going to vote any way except Republican.

If you asked, “Which candidate will be most damaging to our country?”, I’d have to agree with you– it’s McCain. But our country is broken, and none of the three are saying anything that makes me think they’re planning on fixing it. So forgive me if I’m a little bit underenthused about the presidential race right now.

That said, I have watched with some horror at the manipulation used to try to bully Clinton. It’s bad because she’s not . . . giving up? I mean, the problem with Clinton is that she wants to fight to the end? Isn’t that democracy? That it’s not over until all the votes are counted?

It leaves me continuously horrified.