when the status quo frustrates.

Libertarian Troll Bingo

Zingerella and I have been watching the comment pile-up on Amanda’s review of “Sicko” with some amusement. It seems that the Pandagonians have been hilariously fending off a small influx of libertarian trolls. Said trolls are typing valiantly away in an attempt to make sure that health care isn’t extended to the unwashed masses. As the argument progressed, we noticed that the resident trolls followed a familiar script and shared certain similarities with previous libertarians we’d encountered. Like their ideological comrades, these fellows miraculously manage to do it all themselves, with no help from anyone else. Despite their humble backgrounds, they are autodidacts and their pluck and wits have landed them lucrative jobs at a young age. But they still remember being poor, and all those other poor people who siphoned off the system and, well, just didn’t work hard enough as libertarians do.

Still, Randroids aren’t unkind people. They donate to charity. They just don’t want to be told to help anyone. They don’t want to be told what to do. You know who told people what to do? Hitler.

So, in honour of our libertarian friends, their commendable determination in the face of facts and basic economic theory, and their triumphant individualism, we’ve created:

Libertarian Troll Bingo

Special thanks to “Bryan” and “kevin” for pretty much making my evening.

36 Responses to “Libertarian Troll Bingo”

  1. Nancy says:

    Can you make it bigger? I’m having a hard time reading it.

    But I can tell already it’s great.

  2. JackGoff says:

    Awesome! There’s so much that could go in here. I especially liked where kevin basically said “You can’t quote Jefferson saying he likes Swedish health care, so…”

  3. Kyso Kisaen says:

    If I go to Pandagon, which I do about a zillion times a day, and I see a post that is both a) new to me and b) already up to 100 comments, I don’t even look for there there be trolls. So I haven’t actually read the Sicko comments, but I imagine you could fill all the dots on that card with them.

  4. zingerella says:

    So I haven’t actually read the Sicko comments, but I imagine you could fill all the dots on that card with them.

    Well, we don’t know anything about Bryan’s haircut.

  5. Hope you don’t mind, Sabo, but I built the link into the picture so people can click it for a bigger version.

  6. Libertarian Troll Bingo…

    Get your card now! I find this amusing on several levels, as I tore my hair out in frustration at the blithering stupidity of these trolls. Making light of it makes me feel better….

  7. This is one of life’s better things. This may be my second-fave libertarian blog post ever.

    – Chris

  8. Sabotabby says:

    Thanks, Amanda.

  9. MH says:

    “Works in IT” should be closer to the middle. I expected it to be the center square, actually, because it’s almost as much of a gimme as what you have there.

  10. qkslvrwolf says:

    Can you post a larger image someplace that isn’t blocked by the AF filter?

  11. Graham says:

    Is there, like, cash prizes in this thing? Because I’m not doing too well here.

  12. has_te says:

    Never bin over here.
    Nice.
    Bingo card mentality summed up in just two words.

    “Mine!”

    “Share?”

  13. ian says:

    i think you should replace heinlein with ayn rand. it’s possible to read and admire heinlein without going full libertarian

  14. esizzle says:

    There’s no such thing as White privilege, okay?

  15. Bryan says:

    “The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it.” –Thomas Jefferson to M. van der Kemp, 1812. ME 13:135

    “An equal application of law to every condition of man is fundamental.” –Thomas Jefferson to George Hay, 1807. ME 11:341

    I find these two quotes particularly interesting. Like I said before, it’s not the ideal I’m opposed to, it’s the particular implementation that I’m objected to.

  16. zingerella says:

    Hey, Sabo? You know what we forgot to include?

    Seems to have a shameless but lamentable unfamiliarity with advanced English-language skills, such as choosing the correct homophone, spelling, standard subject-verb-object sentence structure, application of correct verb tenses, and proofreading. Other advanced language-arts skills, such as reading comprehension also appear to be well below grade-level for most public schools. This despite an apparent ability to quote everything the Founders ever said, verbatim, whether it’s relevant or not.

    Must have something to do with the autodidacticism.

    Because we all know that public education is a waste of money.

  17. I’m sorry you guys picked up our boring ass troll Bryan. For what it’s worth, if you ban him for being deeply boring, I’d understand.

  18. [...] The libertarian argument at Pandagon started in response to a “libertarian bingo card” that Amanda Marcotte posted (that had originally been made/posted by sabotabby at punkassblog), with descriptions of common libertarian stereotypes on every square. The card itself I found amusing (especially “Take the World’s Smallest Political Quiz!”). But the comments thread really kind of annoyed me. Libertarians are all misogynist white males, people said. Libertarians are just all rich and selfish and don’t want to share their money, people said. Libertarians always vote for Bush and conservative Republicans. Libertarians reap the benefits of things like public roads and local policemen but don’t want to pay for them. Libertarians are all gun-toting nutjobs who can’t hold coherent or logical conversations. A lot of the commenters were frantically arguing against wildly inaccurate versions of libertarian political philosophy based on a conversation they’d had with some guy at the gun store or something they’d read some libertarian commenter say on a blog somewhere. I’m not talking about all the commenters (or Amanda or sabotabby), obviously, but it seemed most had never read any classical liberal writing or any modern libertarian writers. But it didn’t matter. They just knew what it was all about. [...]

  19. Adrian says:

    Libertarians stand against the military draft, mandatory high school, and mandatory national service. All of these have been achieved with most of The Greatest Statist WW2 Generation kicking and screaming. Democrats also want males to be sacrificed for females and children during wartime, and take away our college loans unless we register for Selective Sacrifice.

    Legislating altruism IS legislating religion. Roosevelt and Truman once claimed that those who oppose their social programs, their compulsory taxation, and their draft enslavement are “traitors to Christianity.” The Democratic Party have the altruist morality of the Catholic Church because most of you worship male sacrifice on Sunday morning, and male sacrifice in history classes. I am not a male sacrifice for other people. Dare to curse Roosevelt and Truman.

    Democrats have also outlawed discrimination against Catholic people, and even accept Catholic people such as John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi into your party! No wonder you can’t defend birth control or abortion choice. Catholics are scum who treat their friends and workers like shit, in every friendship and workplace I’ve ever been around them. The Klan seriously needs to attack Catholics, not blacks or Jews. Fight racial and sexual discrimination, not religious discrimination, because people can change their beliefs. Dare to curse Catholic people and the Vatican Masters.

  20. James says:

    This is awesome!!!

    I knew there’d come a time when statists would quit trying ever so fecklessly to construct arguments against libertarian positions, but I had no idea the substitute activity would be such a neat game.

  21. Lisa KS says:

    I blame Amanda.

  22. skyephoenix says:

    Ayn rand is big wth the Lib crew

  23. Azkyroth says:

    Democrats also want males to be sacrificed for females and children during wartime, and take away our college loans unless we register for Selective Sacrifice.

    The Democratic Party have the altruist morality of the Catholic Church because most of you worship male sacrifice on Sunday morning, and male sacrifice in history classes. I am not a male sacrifice for other people. Dare to curse Roosevelt and Truman.

    *snickers, pointedly wiggles little finger*

  24. mythago says:

    MH, there are also a lot of non-IT engineers who are libertarian, and let’s not forget the lawyers.

  25. Hypocee says:

    Yah, I love Heinlein but despise libertarianarchists (Starship Troopers, for example, should be like garlic-flavored holy water to any good teabagger). The rest seems to fit pretty well.

  26. Jim says:

    The people who use this sheet are clearly uninformed individuals who know nothing about libertarians except for inaccurate political stereotypes.

  27. Antigone says:

    Or, you know, the libertarians we see on a blogging basis.

  28. John Combs says:

    I see how the social democrats love to misrepresent the opposite side in order to win an argument. Or, in most cases, to add ridicule to their misrepresentation.

    I’m obviously unfamiliar with the English language, right? Despite the fact that most of you Dems misspell your words and throw punctuation around like it’s other people’s money. Oh, and we tell you not to quote things that our beloved founders may have said that contradict our views? This despite the fact that the quotes you use are often complete fabrications or, at the very least, completely out of context.

    Btw, Starship Troopers is a libertarian book implying that one has to show responsibility (serve in military) before being allowed to vote (not the same as the draft, since one can choose not to vote in this example) and laments the communistic tendencies in Plato’s Republic. Any left-wing ideal you might have drawn has to come from the movie (which seems anti-military).

    Heinlein was a self-proclaimed libertarian whom admitted (just as I do) that he was a socialist sympathizer in his youth. He grew up by the time he started writing Lazarus Long and started having grown-up ideas rooted in reality. As opposed to the adolescent utopian ideals of the shiny-happy-people liberals.

    Two truths: Socialism requires perfect government, devoid of human error. Anarchism requires perfect human being incapable of error. Libertarianism assumes there’s no such thing as perfect.

    You’re children.

  29. John Combs says:

    Also, for you punk ass children. John Lydon came out as an admirer of Ron Paul and complained about government in his lyrics while satirizing pure Anarchism.

  30. Nurse Evil says:

    I love the bingo card. And if you make another so multiple people can play, here’s a few suggestions…

    -Talks about “going Galt.”
    -Quotes/praises Rand.
    -Mentions how Rand pretty much predicted the future economic crisis.
    -Praises the Tea Parties.
    -Defends slavery in the US because it was an infringement on property rights.
    -Mentions how they own a business.
    -Defends the corporate abuses of workers in the early 1900′s because “it was only seems bad by today’s standards” or “the concept of childhood was viewed differently back them” (in the case of corrupt child labor).

  31. Noel says:

    Very witty! And so true!

  32. Alex says:

    This page is practically drowning in serious flaws. As a libertarian my objections are the following:

    1) I am pro-choice. I don’t see how a libertarian can be against reproductive rights. Many pro-life neocons claim to be libertarian – assess whether someone is a libertarian by the policies they actually advocate rather than this conflation of free market libertarians with the right.

    2) I do not think poor people are lazy. You conflate defending private property and defending the property classes. Throughout history, property classes have been maintained on the violation of the property of those at the bottom of the hierarchy.

    3) I am in fact a nihilist and an admirer of Kant. This is conflating Objectivists and Libertarians.

    4) Ayn Rand was not a libertarian. In fact she called the Libertarian Party the worst party in America.

    5) You conflate corporate capitalism with the free market. In many cases nationalised industries produce better results than corporate industries. I do not deny that.

    6) I am not self-educated. Individualism has nothing to do with isolation and self-dependance. The very reason companies and voluntary associations exist is because we cannot live in isolation. Libertarians do not “miraculously manage to do it all themselves, with no help from anyone else.” This is a complete non sequitur. Yes humans are interdependent – so what? Please explain how a system of voluntary interaction is overturned by this notion.

    7) Society does exist, but only in a synergistic sense, nothing more.

    8) I do not believe a society with lots of guns. This is a ridiculous claim since this is the very criticism made against the state. I am against the state because I want less guns!

    9) “Doesn’t mind government funded roads.” If a slave accepts a meal from a master is it legitimate to say the slave “doesn’t mind the master giving him meals”? The analogy is fallacious. Governments don’t fund anything, the funds are expropriated from society. Society funds them.

    10) “Why should I have to pay for other people’s health care?” “You want to legislate altruism.” This is a gross misunderstanding of the principles of voluntary interaction. If someone put a gun to your head and told you to give money to the homeless, your objection would not be the notion of giving money to the homeless, but the fact that someone can legitimately threaten you. That is the libertarian objection.

    11) I care deeply about the poor, and have little affinity with the rich. However I am not a slave to my emotions, and reason tells me that a free market will do more for the poor than any of the state legislation that serves as a mere monument – built at the expense of those they are supposed to help.

    12) “Still, Randroids aren’t unkind people. They donate to charity.” Actually no. Objectivists (or Randroids) are ethical egoists so they do not donate to charity. There are multiple points in Atlas Shrugged when Rand hinted at her distaste for charities.

    13) “I have the right to the fruits of my labour (and your labour.” Yet again – isn’t this the very argument made against the state?

    14) “So, in honour of our libertarian friends, their commendable determination in the face of facts and basic economic theory.” I hear this all the time but I have never been directly told what these “facts” are. And by “basic economic theory” can I infer you mean Keynesian economics. Even Marx realised that economic growth was down to expansions in capital. As poor as his economics was at least he was on planet earth, unlike Keynes who claimed consumption fuelled growth.

    15) “You know who told people what to do? Hitler.” This whole page makes no argument mixed in with the attempt at humour. It is mostly strawman arguments and an attempt to force a “Reductio ad Hitlerum” fallacy onto those who are not actually making one.

    16) A “Libertarian troll.” Yes, there are trolls of every political position (except for holier than thou liberals of course).

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