Comments on: Sicko http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/ Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:06:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Antigone http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44343 Antigone Fri, 22 Jun 2007 23:32:28 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44343 Yeah, it would be nice if dental and vision were covered, but luckily for me my covered the gaps in it. And I still know that even with that (correctable) flaw, it is head and shoulders over private policies. Yeah, it would be nice if dental and vision were covered, but luckily for me my covered the gaps in it. And I still know that even with that (correctable) flaw, it is head and shoulders over private policies.

]]> By: Older http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44339 Older Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:54:01 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44339 Antigone -- the government-wide medical insurance program is indeed wonderful, and it is not restricted to congress persons. The only limit to its wonderfulness is that having been set up many years ago, it regards dental work and vision correction as largely recreational in nature, and they aren't covered. Otherwise, it is wonderful, and some years ago, I spent some time doing the math and satisfied myself that it could be extended to the entire population without needing more additional money than is already spent by the federal and state governments on medical care for the poor. In fact, it would probably cost less. Then they could add in the vision and dental coverage. It even answers the objection, which I have heard, that it would "put private companies out of business." This probably isn't a good place to explain how it all works. In any case, I'm more interested in why almost no-one ever suggests it, and why people think it wouldn't work. Every federal employee (and there are a lot of us) knows it does work. Antigone — the government-wide medical insurance program is indeed wonderful, and it is not restricted to congress persons. The only limit to its wonderfulness is that having been set up many years ago, it regards dental work and vision correction as largely recreational in nature, and they aren’t covered.

Otherwise, it is wonderful, and some years ago, I spent some time doing the math and satisfied myself that it could be extended to the entire population without needing more additional money than is already spent by the federal and state governments on medical care for the poor. In fact, it would probably cost less. Then they could add in the vision and dental coverage.

It even answers the objection, which I have heard, that it would “put private companies out of business.”
This probably isn’t a good place to explain how it all works. In any case, I’m more interested in why almost no-one ever suggests it, and why people think it wouldn’t work. Every federal employee (and there are a lot of us) knows it does work.

]]> By: Nymphalidae http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44314 Nymphalidae Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:07:48 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44314 Argument #2 "Everyone pays a bit more in taxes so that no one pays a lot more for health care" is a huge problem for whiny rich assholes. I guess they've just worked so hard that they've earned the privilege of witholding basic necessities from others. The electricity where I live is owned by the city (or state, maybe - not sure), which means it's super cheap. We heat the apartment, cook, run 4 computers etc and it's never over $150/month. We used to pay that much just for natural gas. More socialism, please. Argument #2 “Everyone pays a bit more in taxes so that no one pays a lot more for health care” is a huge problem for whiny rich assholes. I guess they’ve just worked so hard that they’ve earned the privilege of witholding basic necessities from others.

The electricity where I live is owned by the city (or state, maybe - not sure), which means it’s super cheap. We heat the apartment, cook, run 4 computers etc and it’s never over $150/month. We used to pay that much just for natural gas. More socialism, please.

]]> By: zingerella http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44312 zingerella Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:23:21 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44312 Argument 4 is bogus, we all know. What kills people is not having access to regular medical care so that their illnesses go unchecked until said illnesses are acute. What kills people is not having accesss to preventive care and good health education. What kills people is being kicked out of healthcare facilities before their treatment is complete or their condition stable, because they can't afford to pay. Sure in Canada some people have to wait longer than would be ideal for medical care. Some people get misdiagnosed, because doctors are human and victims of their own ignorance and biases as much as any other group of people. Some people have to spend more time in pain than anyone wants while they wait for equipment for which there's a high demand, such as MRIs, <i>because critical and acute cases take priority over chronic or non-critical cases</i> (i.e., someone's brain tumour, which is acute and life-threatening take priority over my mom's back pain, which is chronic and debilitating, but won't kill her if she has to wait a few weeks for diagnosis.) But I don't know of anyone in Canada who has felt unable to even see a doctor or nurse practitioner in order to find out what's wrong, whereas my American ex-husband, his mother, and many of my American friends don't <i>do</i> regular checkups and more or less need to have lost a limb in order to visit a medical professional, they're that (justifiably) scared of the cost of doing so. Argument 4 is bogus, we all know. What kills people is not having access to regular medical care so that their illnesses go unchecked until said illnesses are acute. What kills people is not having accesss to preventive care and good health education. What kills people is being kicked out of healthcare facilities before their treatment is complete or their condition stable, because they can’t afford to pay.

Sure in Canada some people have to wait longer than would be ideal for medical care. Some people get misdiagnosed, because doctors are human and victims of their own ignorance and biases as much as any other group of people. Some people have to spend more time in pain than anyone wants while they wait for equipment for which there’s a high demand, such as MRIs, because critical and acute cases take priority over chronic or non-critical cases (i.e., someone’s brain tumour, which is acute and life-threatening take priority over my mom’s back pain, which is chronic and debilitating, but won’t kill her if she has to wait a few weeks for diagnosis.) But I don’t know of anyone in Canada who has felt unable to even see a doctor or nurse practitioner in order to find out what’s wrong, whereas my American ex-husband, his mother, and many of my American friends don’t do regular checkups and more or less need to have lost a limb in order to visit a medical professional, they’re that (justifiably) scared of the cost of doing so.

]]> By: Antigone http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44311 Antigone Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:23:03 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44311 I think argument #4 is actually "I have to be inconvienced by wait times, like THOSE people". I think argument #4 is actually “I have to be inconvienced by wait times, like THOSE people”.

]]> By: thinking girl http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44277 thinking girl Fri, 22 Jun 2007 04:00:17 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44277 Heya, fellow Canuck here. "Argument 3: With universal health care, you don’t get the freedom to choose your own doctor." Yep, you're right, this is not even an argument at all - consider that HMOs provide their clients with a list of doctors/hospitals they can go to see, and if they go to a doctor/hospital outside those choices, they aren't covered for the care they receive. "Argument 4: Wait times kill patients!" Again I agree - nope, not really. Patients with critical health problems generally don't wait for care for any significant length of time that would affect the outcome of their treatment or threaten their lives. Besides which, think about what it would actually mean to not have any wait times - you'd have to have so many doctors on hand to treat any possible condition that could present that it would be impossible to keep them all occupied or even pay their salaries. Heya,

fellow Canuck here.

“Argument 3: With universal health care, you don’t get the freedom to choose your own doctor.”

Yep, you’re right, this is not even an argument at all - consider that HMOs provide their clients with a list of doctors/hospitals they can go to see, and if they go to a doctor/hospital outside those choices, they aren’t covered for the care they receive.

“Argument 4: Wait times kill patients!”

Again I agree - nope, not really. Patients with critical health problems generally don’t wait for care for any significant length of time that would affect the outcome of their treatment or threaten their lives. Besides which, think about what it would actually mean to not have any wait times - you’d have to have so many doctors on hand to treat any possible condition that could present that it would be impossible to keep them all occupied or even pay their salaries.

]]> By: MikeEss http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44270 MikeEss Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:19:10 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44270 <i>"What I don’t understand is that government employees get good health care: if it’s good enough for congresspeople, why not the rest of us lowly peons?"</i> Because they need to have something to define their privilege. All these things set them apart and help create a subculture of higher status. Little things like that are very important to many people (if unacknowledged)... “What I don’t understand is that government employees get good health care: if it’s good enough for congresspeople, why not the rest of us lowly peons?”

Because they need to have something to define their privilege. All these things set them apart and help create a subculture of higher status.

Little things like that are very important to many people (if unacknowledged)…

]]> By: delagar http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44269 delagar Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:06:44 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44269 I've gone through bankruptcy once due to medical costs. I had "good" cancer -- thyroid cancer that did not kill me, just wiped me out fincancially and put me $130,000.00 in debt by the end of nine years -- well, that wasn't all the cancer; some of it was having a kid six years after the cancer with useless medical insurance, but anyway. I went through bankruptcy two years ago, and now I have medical insurance again, but good shit, it's useless. It covers almost nothing (doesn't cover dental or vision, for instance, or mr. delagar's sleep apnea), it costs five hundred dollars a month (that's to cover me, mr. delagar, and the kid), it has fifteen hundred dollar deductible every single year, there's a $30.00 co-pay on all the drugs (and I'm on five different meds per month, see the whole cancer thing above), and every time I have to have some procedure done, even *if* the insurance covers it, they only cover € of it, so we have to pay the other 20% -- which, since a huge hunk of my income is already being eaten up by medical expenses, where do they think I'm getting that from? Santa? So what's wrong with socialism, hell yeah. Bring it on. I’ve gone through bankruptcy once due to medical costs. I had “good” cancer — thyroid cancer that did not kill me, just wiped me out fincancially and put me $130,000.00 in debt by the end of nine years — well, that wasn’t all the cancer; some of it was having a kid six years after the cancer with useless medical insurance, but anyway.

I went through bankruptcy two years ago, and now I have medical insurance again, but good shit, it’s useless. It covers almost nothing (doesn’t cover dental or vision, for instance, or mr. delagar’s sleep apnea), it costs five hundred dollars a month (that’s to cover me, mr. delagar, and the kid), it has fifteen hundred dollar deductible every single year, there’s a $30.00 co-pay on all the drugs (and I’m on five different meds per month, see the whole cancer thing above), and every time I have to have some procedure done, even *if* the insurance covers it, they only cover € of it, so we have to pay the other 20% — which, since a huge hunk of my income is already being eaten up by medical expenses, where do they think I’m getting that from? Santa?

So what’s wrong with socialism, hell yeah. Bring it on.

]]> By: Antigone http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44267 Antigone Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:36:13 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44267 I grew up luckily: my mom's a nurse, and my dad's a federal agent, so we never had any major gaps in medical coverage. But even they can tell you some horror stories; I haven't heard of a person who couldn't. What I don't understand is that government employees get good health care: if it's good enough for congresspeople, why not the rest of us lowly peons? I grew up luckily: my mom’s a nurse, and my dad’s a federal agent, so we never had any major gaps in medical coverage. But even they can tell you some horror stories; I haven’t heard of a person who couldn’t.

What I don’t understand is that government employees get good health care: if it’s good enough for congresspeople, why not the rest of us lowly peons?

]]> By: N1Nj4G1rl http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44256 N1Nj4G1rl Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:54:22 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2007/06/21/sicko/#comment-44256 I'm one of the lucky few people I know with fairly decent health care coverage, my partner on the other hand, not so much. He was throwing up on a daily basis for about 2 months before I finally dragged him to the "low cost" clinic ($50 bucks before they will even let you sit down in the waiting room)they gave him some pills and he was okay for a month or two. Of course it came back much worse but luckily his work insurance had JUST kicked in so off the emergency room we eventually went, he had to stay overnight because he was so dehydrated and have CT scan and an ultrasound. They still hadn't figured out what was wrong, so he had to go to his 'regular' doctor to get a referral, then go back to the hospital and have an endoscopy. Turns out he has acid reflux. As well as owing the hospital somewhere in the range of 600 dollars. I guess he reached his spending limit, because now if he goes to a clinic for something that would have been covered completely before the hospital stay, we get the bill for the majority of the costs. I’m one of the lucky few people I know with fairly decent health care coverage, my partner on the other hand, not so much. He was throwing up on a daily basis for about 2 months before I finally dragged him to the “low cost” clinic ($50 bucks before they will even let you sit down in the waiting room)they gave him some pills and he was okay for a month or two.
Of course it came back much worse but luckily his work insurance had JUST kicked in so off the emergency room we eventually went, he had to stay overnight because he was so dehydrated and have CT scan and an ultrasound. They still hadn’t figured out what was wrong, so he had to go to his ‘regular’ doctor to get a referral, then go back to the hospital and have an endoscopy. Turns out he has acid reflux. As well as owing the hospital somewhere in the range of 600 dollars. I guess he reached his spending limit, because now if he goes to a clinic for something that would have been covered completely before the hospital stay, we get the bill for the majority of the costs.

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