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	<title>Comments on: Fellating your betters: what is too much saliva for engineering firms is just right for CWA or IWF internships.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/</link>
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		<title>By: appletree &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sunday Links: &#8216;Evil and Surreal&#8217; Edition</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-46412</link>
		<dc:creator>appletree &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sunday Links: &#8216;Evil and Surreal&#8217; Edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-46412</guid>
		<description>[...] Punkass Kyso points out that being passive on the job is never a good way to get promoted, especially if you&#8217;re a woman. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Punkass Kyso points out that being passive on the job is never a good way to get promoted, especially if you&#8217;re a woman. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nem0</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37973</link>
		<dc:creator>nem0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37973</guid>
		<description>Count me among the people who are surprised this woman had the free time to hack out a rant like this while studying engineering.  I remember touring a university&#039;s computer science department when I was still debating where to apply, and the one female professor kept telling me how &lt;i&gt;wonderful&lt;/i&gt; it&#039;d be to have another woman in the program.  They had a support group!  Because it&#039;s so hard to work with men all the time!  I could join!  I was like, lady, I&#039;m a software engineer.  When the hell do you think I&#039;ll have &lt;i&gt;time&lt;/i&gt; to join your coffee klatch and bitch about the boys?  And if I do have free time, why&#039;d I sit around and kvetch when I could be at a LAN party with said boys?

I don&#039;t recall whether my uni had women&#039;s study courses.  I did take a Women in Art History course, though.  It was taught by a woman, but she was bizarrely uptight.  I&#039;m sorry, if you can&#039;t say the words &quot;rape&quot; or &quot;vagina&quot; aloud without blushing and stuttering, maaaybe you shouldn&#039;t be teaching a course focusing on people like Artemisia Gentileschi and Georgia O&#039;Keefe?  Just a thought?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count me among the people who are surprised this woman had the free time to hack out a rant like this while studying engineering.  I remember touring a university&#8217;s computer science department when I was still debating where to apply, and the one female professor kept telling me how <i>wonderful</i> it&#8217;d be to have another woman in the program.  They had a support group!  Because it&#8217;s so hard to work with men all the time!  I could join!  I was like, lady, I&#8217;m a software engineer.  When the hell do you think I&#8217;ll have <i>time</i> to join your coffee klatch and bitch about the boys?  And if I do have free time, why&#8217;d I sit around and kvetch when I could be at a LAN party with said boys?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t recall whether my uni had women&#8217;s study courses.  I did take a Women in Art History course, though.  It was taught by a woman, but she was bizarrely uptight.  I&#8217;m sorry, if you can&#8217;t say the words &#8220;rape&#8221; or &#8220;vagina&#8221; aloud without blushing and stuttering, maaaybe you shouldn&#8217;t be teaching a course focusing on people like Artemisia Gentileschi and Georgia O&#8217;Keefe?  Just a thought?</p>
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		<title>By: elyzabethe</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37863</link>
		<dc:creator>elyzabethe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 03:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37863</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;long&lt;/i&gt; response, I meant</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>long</i> response, I meant</p>
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		<title>By: elyzabethe</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37862</link>
		<dc:creator>elyzabethe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 03:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37862</guid>
		<description>isn&#039;t it strange to look back at the sorts of crap you put up with? i also worked a school-break job for three years at a male-dominated place -- a cigar shop -- and i know it&#039;s not exactly a prestigious sort of job, but we could wear whatever we wanted and play our own music in the store and smoke on the job, and i thought it was just about the coolest place to work ever, being the obsessed-with-empire-records-sort and all ... I was the only girl there and at the time I realized, obviously, that I was being sexually harassed left and right by my coworkers -- not just verbal, but ass-pats and the like, and once my 30-something married boss even whipped his dick out in the storage room ... and yet, it kind of never occurred to me that this was something I should really be offended/annoyed by, that i had a right to, in anything but a vague way ... it was just, like, well, i&#039;m a girl in this male-dominated place, so I guess this is what I have to put up with in order to work here .... 

it&#039;s not like it was scarring in any sort of giant sense, but I just sort of find it amazing to look back at and marvel at my lack-of-reaction ... 

sorry for the lack of response and it&#039;s lack-of-relevance to the focus of this post, yo. your description of your summer employment just struck a chord ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn&#8217;t it strange to look back at the sorts of crap you put up with? i also worked a school-break job for three years at a male-dominated place &#8212; a cigar shop &#8212; and i know it&#8217;s not exactly a prestigious sort of job, but we could wear whatever we wanted and play our own music in the store and smoke on the job, and i thought it was just about the coolest place to work ever, being the obsessed-with-empire-records-sort and all &#8230; I was the only girl there and at the time I realized, obviously, that I was being sexually harassed left and right by my coworkers &#8212; not just verbal, but ass-pats and the like, and once my 30-something married boss even whipped his dick out in the storage room &#8230; and yet, it kind of never occurred to me that this was something I should really be offended/annoyed by, that i had a right to, in anything but a vague way &#8230; it was just, like, well, i&#8217;m a girl in this male-dominated place, so I guess this is what I have to put up with in order to work here &#8230;. </p>
<p>it&#8217;s not like it was scarring in any sort of giant sense, but I just sort of find it amazing to look back at and marvel at my lack-of-reaction &#8230; </p>
<p>sorry for the lack of response and it&#8217;s lack-of-relevance to the focus of this post, yo. your description of your summer employment just struck a chord &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Antigone</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37854</link>
		<dc:creator>Antigone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37854</guid>
		<description>I normally like my humanities credits.  But this semester, I had to take Microeconomics (which is humanities, but has the audacity to pawn itself off as a science).  I got a 100 on the first exam, all while going &quot;I don&#039;t care, I don&#039;t care, I don&#039;t care&quot; in my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I normally like my humanities credits.  But this semester, I had to take Microeconomics (which is humanities, but has the audacity to pawn itself off as a science).  I got a 100 on the first exam, all while going &#8220;I don&#8217;t care, I don&#8217;t care, I don&#8217;t care&#8221; in my head.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyso Kisaen</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37805</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyso Kisaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37805</guid>
		<description>I remember being particularly pissed off about the music class because I had transferred in from a different university, and was for three semesters assured by three different arts &amp; sciences advisors that my arts credit requirements were in the bag.

Then I went a fourth time, just to be sure and I hear &quot;uh-oh!  all your art credits are in the applied arts.  You&#039;ll need a &lt;i&gt;fine&lt;/i&gt; arts course&quot;  add that to needing one honors course and there being an honors ethnomusicology course but no honors physics courses, and there I am, sputtering in outrage because this clearly unreasonable man expects me to hear the difference between 3/4 time and 4/4 time just by listening.  If I had those talents, I&#039;d play a fucking instrument.  Give me my C and let me go home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember being particularly pissed off about the music class because I had transferred in from a different university, and was for three semesters assured by three different arts &#038; sciences advisors that my arts credit requirements were in the bag.</p>
<p>Then I went a fourth time, just to be sure and I hear &#8220;uh-oh!  all your art credits are in the applied arts.  You&#8217;ll need a <i>fine</i> arts course&#8221;  add that to needing one honors course and there being an honors ethnomusicology course but no honors physics courses, and there I am, sputtering in outrage because this clearly unreasonable man expects me to hear the difference between 3/4 time and 4/4 time just by listening.  If I had those talents, I&#8217;d play a fucking instrument.  Give me my C and let me go home.</p>
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		<title>By: ks</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37804</link>
		<dc:creator>ks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37804</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;True. I was a physics major and it was the ethnomusicology class that had me tearing my hair out. “I ddooonnnn’tttt wwaaannnnnttttt ttoooo beeeee heeeereeeee!”&lt;blockquote&gt;

I was a physics major too and I had to take an honors seminar every other semester for my scholorship.  There wasn&#039;t much in the way of choice on those, so sometimes I just got stuck with whatever fit into my schedule that semester.  I don&#039;t remember the course title, but I had one once that dealt with a relationship between genetics and music.  We read &#039;The Goldbug Variations&#039; and discussed how genetic sequences could be used to write music.  The project for the semester was to choose a particular genetic sequence and compose a musical score from it.  And while the premise may sound interesting (and it could have been), it was a horrible, horrible class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>True. I was a physics major and it was the ethnomusicology class that had me tearing my hair out. “I ddooonnnn’tttt wwaaannnnnttttt ttoooo beeeee heeeereeeee!”<br />
<blockquote>
<p>I was a physics major too and I had to take an honors seminar every other semester for my scholorship.  There wasn&#8217;t much in the way of choice on those, so sometimes I just got stuck with whatever fit into my schedule that semester.  I don&#8217;t remember the course title, but I had one once that dealt with a relationship between genetics and music.  We read &#8216;The Goldbug Variations&#8217; and discussed how genetic sequences could be used to write music.  The project for the semester was to choose a particular genetic sequence and compose a musical score from it.  And while the premise may sound interesting (and it could have been), it was a horrible, horrible class.</p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: junk science</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37801</link>
		<dc:creator>junk science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37801</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But clearly, at least, she doesn’t believe some of the Larry-Summers-style “biological” theory about women, because she chose to be an engineering major.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s really surprising how many of these people honestly seem to believe they got where they are all on their own, or who think all progress should stop once they&#039;ve gotten what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But clearly, at least, she doesn’t believe some of the Larry-Summers-style “biological” theory about women, because she chose to be an engineering major.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s really surprising how many of these people honestly seem to believe they got where they are all on their own, or who think all progress should stop once they&#8217;ve gotten what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyso Kisaen</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37786</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyso Kisaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37786</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Yes, there might be some real antifeminism there, but what I mostly see is an engineering major deriding the humanities&lt;/i&gt;

She&#039;s not just bitching about the humanities, she&#039;s also an officer in her school chapter of NeW, the Network of Enlightened women, which appears to be some sort junior Independent Women&#039;s Forum type club.  I would imagine that they consider themselves enlightened because they totally see past all this feminist claptrap.

From thier &quot;about&quot; page:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The mission of NeW is to foster the education and leadership skills of conservative university women. 

...Many NeW chapters engage in activities in addition to meeting as a book club.  NeW chapters have hosted speakers and debates to counter The Vagina Monologues.  NeW chapters have held movie nights, dinners and parties.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s also been featured in not one but two Mallard Fillmore comics.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.enlightenedwomen.org/images/2006-10-22 Mallard Fillmore comic from paper.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Whoohoo!&lt;/a&gt;

Whatever she joined the club for, she&#039;s clearly absorbed the junior anti-feminist mindset.  Not a single argument in that article was original - someone&#039;s been feeding her this stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Yes, there might be some real antifeminism there, but what I mostly see is an engineering major deriding the humanities</i></p>
<p>She&#8217;s not just bitching about the humanities, she&#8217;s also an officer in her school chapter of NeW, the Network of Enlightened women, which appears to be some sort junior Independent Women&#8217;s Forum type club.  I would imagine that they consider themselves enlightened because they totally see past all this feminist claptrap.</p>
<p>From thier &#8220;about&#8221; page:</p>
<blockquote><p>
The mission of NeW is to foster the education and leadership skills of conservative university women. </p>
<p>&#8230;Many NeW chapters engage in activities in addition to meeting as a book club.  NeW chapters have hosted speakers and debates to counter The Vagina Monologues.  NeW chapters have held movie nights, dinners and parties.
</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s also been featured in not one but two Mallard Fillmore comics.  <a href="http://www.enlightenedwomen.org/images/2006-10-22 Mallard Fillmore comic from paper.pdf" rel="nofollow">Whoohoo!</a></p>
<p>Whatever she joined the club for, she&#8217;s clearly absorbed the junior anti-feminist mindset.  Not a single argument in that article was original &#8211; someone&#8217;s been feeding her this stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: r</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/comment-page-1/#comment-37783</link>
		<dc:creator>r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/17/fellating-your-betters-what-is-too-much-saliva-for-engineering-firms-is-just-right-for-cwa-or-iwf-internships/#comment-37783</guid>
		<description>But clearly, at least, she doesn&#039;t believe some of the Larry-Summers-style &quot;biological&quot; theory about women, because she chose to be an engineering major.

You don&#039;t choose something with that kind of a workload if you&#039;re just at college to get your MRS degree.

Yes, there might be some real antifeminism there, but what I mostly see is an engineering major deriding the humanities, and someone trying to play the gadfly in the campus newspaper.  At the end of the day, she can still be found in the computer lab cranking out code instead of babies (at the prime breeding age of 18, no less), blissfully oblivious to the women who made it possible for her to be there.

As a side note, I&#039;ve never had a guy complain that I was deconstructing his patriarchy by opening the door for him.  Maybe they&#039;re also just glad someone is being nice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But clearly, at least, she doesn&#8217;t believe some of the Larry-Summers-style &#8220;biological&#8221; theory about women, because she chose to be an engineering major.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t choose something with that kind of a workload if you&#8217;re just at college to get your MRS degree.</p>
<p>Yes, there might be some real antifeminism there, but what I mostly see is an engineering major deriding the humanities, and someone trying to play the gadfly in the campus newspaper.  At the end of the day, she can still be found in the computer lab cranking out code instead of babies (at the prime breeding age of 18, no less), blissfully oblivious to the women who made it possible for her to be there.</p>
<p>As a side note, I&#8217;ve never had a guy complain that I was deconstructing his patriarchy by opening the door for him.  Maybe they&#8217;re also just glad someone is being nice?</p>
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