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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;m sure that by &#8220;turn the other cheek,&#8221; he meant ruin other people&#8217;s lives</title>
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	<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: appletree &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thursday Links: Irrational Edition</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-41727</link>
		<dc:creator>appletree &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thursday Links: Irrational Edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 17:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-41727</guid>
		<description>[...] When you can&#8217;t twist science and history enough to justify your own stupidity and bigotry, you can just fall back on the old standard: Jesus commands us to be stupid and bigoted. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] When you can&#8217;t twist science and history enough to justify your own stupidity and bigotry, you can just fall back on the old standard: Jesus commands us to be stupid and bigoted. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: (punkass) Marc Faletti</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37519</link>
		<dc:creator>(punkass) Marc Faletti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37519</guid>
		<description>Hello all.

This has been much less than a rousing debate thanks to the unwillingness of the trolls to do anything but nitpick at the fringes of the truth, and I've let it linger far too long.  By virtue of having to travel, I've been unable to participate, but as it's my blog and my post, I believe I'll be taking the last word here.  Please note that as awesome and powerful as I am, I am not the government and therefore am _not_ oppressing anyone by closing comments.  I'm just tired of the bad-faith swarming of a few angry fools who use terms like "femmie."

Adam, Hans, KKK, Shaun, and Vultan seem obssessed with the idea that the operation could possibly make Stanton unable to perform the duties of the job:
&lt;blockquote&gt;As we already have both pointed out, there are real and legitimate reasons for thinking Stanton might no longer be effective in his employment, i.e the strain his body will go under, the physiological instabilities of being transsexual, the immense personal difficulties of working things out with his wife, the condemnation of his community, the scorn of his workplace.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And yet &lt;a href="http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;thousands of transexual women have proven to be perfectly healthy and normal&lt;/a&gt;.  Firing someone because you think they may someday maybe have a physical problem that could prevent them from doing their job but without &lt;em&gt;any evidence&lt;/em&gt; that it has or will occur would never hold up under a wrongful termination suit in the private sector.  Why should it be okay in the public sector?  &lt;a href="http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com/2007/03/law-covering-susan-stanton-city-manager.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jillian's analysis&lt;/a&gt; is far more comprehensive and deserves a read.  It makes a devastating case against the firing on the grounds of sexual discrimination and bad procedure.

The act of release was unfair, and in my mind, robbing someone of a job they love for unfair reasons with discriminatory motives is sick.   

And to the notion that more pissed off people wrote in letters than non-pissed off people equates to solid public opinion, well, that's just an embarrassingly unscientific claim.  Squeaky wheels don't represent public opinion and never have.  You need a genuine poll to determine what Largoans believe, so the Commission (and our trolls) can't hide behind "public opinion via cranky letters" as a defense.  

Adam and friends also cling to the idea that transexuality and feminism are incompatible.  Feel free to read why that's &lt;a href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/01/05/responding-to-the-feminist-anti-transsexual-arguments/" rel="nofollow"&gt;completely false&lt;/a&gt;.  No reason to regurgitate what Ampersand has already said so well.  You'd think the trolls would have learned how to Google by now if they were genuinely interested in exploring this issue, but we all know they're not.

In the end, like most issues that rankle me, this boils down to fairness.  No one posting in this thread or voting Stanton out of a job can say with certainty that the operation would prevent Stanton from doing the job.  In fact, it's extremely likely that it wouldn't.  Moreover, the City Commission failed to follow proper processes and performed sexual discrimination, as outlined by Jillian.  So the firing was unjust.  And because it was discriminatory, it was sick. 

End of story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all.</p>
<p>This has been much less than a rousing debate thanks to the unwillingness of the trolls to do anything but nitpick at the fringes of the truth, and I&#8217;ve let it linger far too long.  By virtue of having to travel, I&#8217;ve been unable to participate, but as it&#8217;s my blog and my post, I believe I&#8217;ll be taking the last word here.  Please note that as awesome and powerful as I am, I am not the government and therefore am _not_ oppressing anyone by closing comments.  I&#8217;m just tired of the bad-faith swarming of a few angry fools who use terms like &#8220;femmie.&#8221;</p>
<p>Adam, Hans, KKK, Shaun, and Vultan seem obssessed with the idea that the operation could possibly make Stanton unable to perform the duties of the job:</p>
<blockquote><p>As we already have both pointed out, there are real and legitimate reasons for thinking Stanton might no longer be effective in his employment, i.e the strain his body will go under, the physiological instabilities of being transsexual, the immense personal difficulties of working things out with his wife, the condemnation of his community, the scorn of his workplace.</p></blockquote>
<p>And yet <a href="http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html" rel="nofollow">thousands of transexual women have proven to be perfectly healthy and normal</a>.  Firing someone because you think they may someday maybe have a physical problem that could prevent them from doing their job but without <em>any evidence</em> that it has or will occur would never hold up under a wrongful termination suit in the private sector.  Why should it be okay in the public sector?  <a href="http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com/2007/03/law-covering-susan-stanton-city-manager.html" rel="nofollow">Jillian&#8217;s analysis</a> is far more comprehensive and deserves a read.  It makes a devastating case against the firing on the grounds of sexual discrimination and bad procedure.</p>
<p>The act of release was unfair, and in my mind, robbing someone of a job they love for unfair reasons with discriminatory motives is sick.   </p>
<p>And to the notion that more pissed off people wrote in letters than non-pissed off people equates to solid public opinion, well, that&#8217;s just an embarrassingly unscientific claim.  Squeaky wheels don&#8217;t represent public opinion and never have.  You need a genuine poll to determine what Largoans believe, so the Commission (and our trolls) can&#8217;t hide behind &#8220;public opinion via cranky letters&#8221; as a defense.  </p>
<p>Adam and friends also cling to the idea that transexuality and feminism are incompatible.  Feel free to read why that&#8217;s <a href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/01/05/responding-to-the-feminist-anti-transsexual-arguments/" rel="nofollow">completely false</a>.  No reason to regurgitate what Ampersand has already said so well.  You&#8217;d think the trolls would have learned how to Google by now if they were genuinely interested in exploring this issue, but we all know they&#8217;re not.</p>
<p>In the end, like most issues that rankle me, this boils down to fairness.  No one posting in this thread or voting Stanton out of a job can say with certainty that the operation would prevent Stanton from doing the job.  In fact, it&#8217;s extremely likely that it wouldn&#8217;t.  Moreover, the City Commission failed to follow proper processes and performed sexual discrimination, as outlined by Jillian.  So the firing was unjust.  And because it was discriminatory, it was sick. </p>
<p>End of story.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam North</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37514</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37514</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s sex discrimination, and therefore illegal, as I’ve discussed in my blog analyzing the legal issues http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Jillian, while I don't blame you for not bothering to read the 80 or so posts you should know that the legality of the action was never really delved into by anyone on this thread. 

We pretty much kept the argument limited the following:

1. Was the City Council of Largo "sick" for firing Stanton?

2. Is transsexuality compatible with feminism? 

From what I read on your blog you know waaaaaaaaaaay more about the legal issues than anyone here. However, even if the law - which in your blog you admit is pretty dubious on transsexuality - is on Stanton's side - the City Council still had legitimate and understandable reasons for reconsidering his employment. See above posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s sex discrimination, and therefore illegal, as I’ve discussed in my blog analyzing the legal issues <a href="http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com</a></p></blockquote>
<p>Jillian, while I don&#8217;t blame you for not bothering to read the 80 or so posts you should know that the legality of the action was never really delved into by anyone on this thread. </p>
<p>We pretty much kept the argument limited the following:</p>
<p>1. Was the City Council of Largo &#8220;sick&#8221; for firing Stanton?</p>
<p>2. Is transsexuality compatible with feminism? </p>
<p>From what I read on your blog you know waaaaaaaaaaay more about the legal issues than anyone here. However, even if the law - which in your blog you admit is pretty dubious on transsexuality - is on Stanton&#8217;s side - the City Council still had legitimate and understandable reasons for reconsidering his employment. See above posts.</p>
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		<title>By: JackGoff</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37513</link>
		<dc:creator>JackGoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37513</guid>
		<description>Jillian, you may have just committed a grievous error.  These guys swarm, and they reek as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jillian, you may have just committed a grievous error.  These guys swarm, and they reek as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jillian T. Weiss</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37508</link>
		<dc:creator>Jillian T. Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 02:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37508</guid>
		<description>It's sex discrimination, and therefore illegal, as I've discussed in my blog analyzing the legal issues http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s sex discrimination, and therefore illegal, as I&#8217;ve discussed in my blog analyzing the legal issues <a href="http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://jweissdiary.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kyso Kisaen</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37507</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyso Kisaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37507</guid>
		<description>Oh, god, it's another last-word-off.  Didn't we have like three of these in the last thread?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, god, it&#8217;s another last-word-off.  Didn&#8217;t we have like three of these in the last thread?</p>
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		<title>By: junk science</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37506</link>
		<dc:creator>junk science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37506</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;No shit, Sherlock.&lt;/i&gt;

How about fewer cliches and more getting the fuck out of here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>No shit, Sherlock.</i></p>
<p>How about fewer cliches and more getting the fuck out of here?</p>
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		<title>By: MikeEss</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37505</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeEss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37505</guid>
		<description>No matter how you look at it, the priapistic ecstasy of the Flash Gordon Troll's &lt;strike&gt;triumphant victory&lt;/strike&gt;, er,  &lt;strike&gt;devastating logical massacre&lt;/strike&gt;, ah, &lt;strike&gt;overwhelming rhetorical success&lt;/strike&gt;, mmm, &lt;strike&gt;win by default for out-boring all other competitors&lt;/strike&gt;, er, hanging on to the bitter end of a thread only a handful of us looked at past the first 2-days, was &lt;strike&gt;truly something to see&lt;/strike&gt; &lt;strike&gt;an awesome sight&lt;/strike&gt; a spectacle.

Sure, all the High-Fiving, the belly bumps, and the manly shoulder punching left bruises and pain in their wake.  

Yes, it hurt.  But it's a good kind of hurt...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No matter how you look at it, the priapistic ecstasy of the Flash Gordon Troll&#8217;s <strike>triumphant victory</strike>, er,  <strike>devastating logical massacre</strike>, ah, <strike>overwhelming rhetorical success</strike>, mmm, <strike>win by default for out-boring all other competitors</strike>, er, hanging on to the bitter end of a thread only a handful of us looked at past the first 2-days, was <strike>truly something to see</strike> <strike>an awesome sight</strike> a spectacle.</p>
<p>Sure, all the High-Fiving, the belly bumps, and the manly shoulder punching left bruises and pain in their wake.  </p>
<p>Yes, it hurt.  But it&#8217;s a good kind of hurt&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Adam North</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37504</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37504</guid>
		<description>"Yes, you win. Now go away." - Junk science

No shit, Sherlock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes, you win. Now go away.&#8221; - Junk science</p>
<p>No shit, Sherlock.</p>
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		<title>By: Kinder, Küche, Kirche</title>
		<link>http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37502</link>
		<dc:creator>Kinder, Küche, Kirche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://punkassblog.com/2007/03/01/turn-the-other-cheek/#comment-37502</guid>
		<description>Come on guys, everybody knows that Stanton is really just getting the ole snip to make him invincible against the orgazmoraider toting Trey Parker and his sidekick Choda Boy. You'll never stop me now Orgazmo!
Anyway, good show Flash Gordon! The only word that comes to mind is "cluster fuck", because thats exactly what you did to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on guys, everybody knows that Stanton is really just getting the ole snip to make him invincible against the orgazmoraider toting Trey Parker and his sidekick Choda Boy. You&#8217;ll never stop me now Orgazmo!<br />
Anyway, good show Flash Gordon! The only word that comes to mind is &#8220;cluster fuck&#8221;, because thats exactly what you did to them.</p>
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