There is no stronger weapon in the anti-feminist arsenal than that of making feminists defend the same damn obvious points again and again and again. And if you don’t believe me, check out my 300-comment thread where a guy whines repeatedly that a few wrongful rape convictions compared to an ocean of unreported rapes means that we totally have to treat rape victims as lying whores until proven otherwise by, oh, I dunno, four male witnesses or something before we can even think about convicting more guilty men. He declared himself the winner of this debate, I have the first 300-post threat at PAB, we all left happy.
Regardless, I’m sure Mrs. Alexandra had only the bestest, most sincere intentions when she asked a question that preys upon that tiny little subsection of humanity that wonders, in the back of its mind, if women actually have souls (answer: sorry guys, but it the question was never seriously posed and only became debate because pundits in the Middle Ages were just as good at missing the point as they are today. Not that this should discourage you from the debate at hand. There are no similarities. Trust me.)
Should we be educating women? You know, like they were men or something?
Education, especially female education has become a very controversial subject in the recent years.
There are two kinds of people who think that female education is controversial: people with agendas, and people with different agendas. Both of them hate women.
Education can be compared to tools which one needs to succeed in his profession. Men of different profession will need different tools. There should not be “one size fits all” approach to education. I would like to stress this concept. Of course, there is basic knowledge necessary for everybody, but after this comes specialization. A truck driver will need a very different course of studies than a brain surgeon.
I think I know where this is going: one gender gets to be the truck driver, and the other gets to be the brain surgeon. Both will enjoy illegally long shifts, insane stressful work conditions, and be able to kill other people if they fail to pay attention for even a second. But one will get lots of money and prestige for saving a life here and there and the other will get shat on by people who only value their work in the abstract despite the fact that they make up the very backbone of the economy/society/whatever. I think we know which gets which.
Most people understand it without any problem when they are discussing professional education. However, things change drastically, when they start talking about male vs female education.
That’s because the idea pegs very high on most people’s bullshit meters. I agree that truck drivers do not need to go a hundred grand in debt to spend four years at medical school. I do not agree that ninth-grade girls should be excused from algebra or gym in order to learn how to tie an apron.
In many Western countries there used to be home economics courses for girls or housekeeping schools, but they quietly disappeared somewhere in the 1980s, when housewife was crossed out of the list of careers suitable for women and substituted with fighter pilot and state secretary.
Not. Freaking. True. I took a home ec class as late as 1994. I made a pillow and some kind of pastry. While there was no cooking class at my high school, there was a “family living” class, plenty of arts and crafts classes, and a whole vocational curriculum devoted to horticulture, and another for cosmetology. You could, at least as recently as 1999, get all the way through high school without aquiring nearly enough manly knowledge to shrivel even a single egg in your ovaries.
At the same time that schools stopped teaching homemaking skills to girls, their own mothers left home for enjoyments of career world. Thus a new generation of young women was created, ignorant of basic homemaking skills and knowing next to nothing about men in general.
Luckily, we have the internet. Problem. Solved. I guess we just freed up some time for all that math and shit.
It is astonishing, but a lot of young women nowadays blindly believe everything Cosmopolitan and other feminist magazines…
Bwaa-haaaa-haaaaaa-haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
…are telling them about men and relationships, and when they are left alone and heart-broken they blame men and society for their problems.
When if they’d just done as the Bible instructed, they’d never end up alone or broken-hearted. Or humiliated on a national (nay, international) stage.
And for the last fucking time: THE OFFICIAL FEMINIST STANCE ON COSMO IS THAT THEY GIVE THE WORST POSSIBLE SEX AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE. Seriously, it is, at best, completely lame.
Trigonometry will not make a woman happy in marriage, understanding of men surely will. A lot of women mistakenly think that their university diploma or high career achievements will make men value them more. In fact, most men couldn’t care less about women’s careers, unless such a man wants to find a rich wife and become a househusband.
It’s working for my boyfriend. Of course, I can’t support us both right now what with this economy, so against God’s plan he has to take a job at the Infinite-Sided Polyhedra Rot13(X). Soon we’ll have him home where he belongs and on that glorious day, this house better be dust fucking free, I’ll tell you what.
The quote below is from “Fascinating Womanhood” by Mrs Andelin (the 1992 edition, p.13).
“…remember that a man judges with a different set of values.
Women are inclined to appreciate poise, talent, intellectual gifts, and cleverness of personality, whereas men admire girlishness, tenderness, sweetness of character, vivacity and the ability to understand men…Men…have a different interpretation of what makes a woman beautiful. They place more stress on the sparkle in her eyes, smiles, freshness, radiance and her feminine manner.”
Quote war! I’ll see you a Mrs. Andelin and raise you a Frances Power Cobbe:
The opponents of the social and intellectual elevation of woman may be divided into two categories–the hierarchies, which fear or rather foresee that their own usurped powers and privileges will be reduced in proportion as rights shall be recovered by classes which have hitherto been deprived of them, and the vast body of men and women who honestly believe that woman is, upon the whole, an inferior creature.
Oh, snap! Looks like Ms. Cobbe blames the patriarchy, Civil War style:
The love of power is the strongest of human passions, and it is a remarkable proof of the intensity of the social feeling in man that aggregate bodies cling more tenaciously than individuals to the exceptional privileges they have become possessed of. Kings have voluntarily abdicated their thrones, but never did an order resign its prerogatives except upon compulsion…
Ancient oppressions were sanctioned by appeals to vaguely conceived divinities, speaking, as in a great part of Europe they do to this day, only through the priests. In nations which have shaken off some part of their mediaeval superstitions–royalty, hereditary aristocracy, consecrated priesthoods–advocates of the slavery of man and the degradation of woman fortify every proposition by quotations from Holy Writ–the joint authority of “Peter and Paul.” When it was a penitentiary offence in South Carolina to teach the negro to read, when generous Georgia condemned missionaries to penal servitude for preaching Christianity to the Indians, the pious, the learned, the wise, and even the philanthropists of those enlightened communities had no doubt that the sentences were just. Reason and experience proved the inferiority of the black skin and the red just as logically as they establish the inferiority of woman now, and devout gospellers appealed to Scripture in the former case as triumphantly as they still do in the latter. It was clear from Holy Writ that “Ham’s sons was gi’n to us in charge;” slavery was their natural, divinely ordained condition, their earthly school and paradise; and though the “nigger” was a “useful institution” to his owner, yet it was more as a matter of duty than of interest that the magnanimous Southron held him in perpetual bondage…
As to the Indian, his name did not appear in the biblical genealogies–he was not the son of anybody; they “‘spected he growed.” Of course he inherited no share in the “covenant promises,” and the taking of his lands and his goods and appropriating them to better uses was a praiseworthy spoiling of the Egyptians. All this was conscientiously believed five years ago by seven or eight millions of men, women, and children. Does anybody but a Copperhead believe, it now?
Is it not possible that the all but universal belief in the inferior nature of woman rests on a not less sandy foundation?
Say what you will about those women in the past, but man, they totally knew their place.
But don’t take a cunt’s word for it when a bonafide man wants in on the action:
But why then should women be denied the benefit of instruction? If knowledge and understanding had been useless additions to the sex, God Almighty would never have given them capacities; for he made nothing needless. Besides, I would ask such, What they can see in ignorance, that they should think it a necessary ornament to a woman? or how much worse is a wise woman than a fool? or what has the woman done to forfeit the privilege of being taught? Does she plague us with her pride and impertinence? Why did we not let her learn, that she might have had more wit? Shall we upbraid women with folly, when ’tis only the error of this inhuman custom, that hindered them from being made wiser?
Or this random topless Christian girl:
If God provided a woman with a creative, intelligent, discerning brain, don’t you think he intended her to use it?
But yeah, despite the fact that the actual debate was about a hundred-plus years ago and now women have education and jobs and money and we’re not going back, keep arguing about it. You religious folk are in real good company (have you met Vox? You wouldn’t get along, he kind of puts a little dent in your “if you submit lovingly enough, he’ll not be a total dick about it” theory.) The rest of us think you’re nuts.
What I am trying to address is a necessity to prepare girls for their future vocation in life. If a girl wants to marry and become a homemaker one day, she should take time to prepare herself for her future profession. Also, she won’t be able to have a successful marriage if she is ignorant about men.
When her tired husband will come home from work, I doubt he will much appreciate a philosophical debate or a lecture on current political situation. He rather will prefer fresh appearance, a cup of coffee and a sympathetic ear!
Please. Unless the answer is “nothing,” my boyfriend could seriously give a fuck less what I’m wearing when he’s bitching about the people who come to work at 4 in the morning to play $40 worth of lottery tickets three or more times a week. If I based my entire sense of self-worth on his noticing every little feminine detail I overplanned while waiting for his lordship to come home, I’d have already shot myself out of dispair. We’re talking about a man who just does not appreciate the finer touches that only an angel of the house can bestow. Must be the feminist brainwashing he got at that Nazarene church he spent his whole childhood in.
Also, I am famous throughout my entire graduate program for the kickass homemade bread I sometimes bring to school on Mondays, so I know for a fact that you can learn to cook insanely elaborate things AND get a degree at the same time.
But I’m not all cynicism. Here, I even went and found you a curriculum.
Educating Women
Courses Now Being Offered:* Silence, the Final Frontier:
Where No Woman Has Gone Before* The Undiscovered Side of Banking:
Making Deposits* Combating Imelda Marcos Syndrome:
You Do Not Need New Shoes Everyday* Man Management:
Discover How Chores Can Wait Until After the Game* Communication Skills I:
Tears — The Last Resort, Not the First* Communication Skills II:
Thinking Before Speaking* Communication Skills III:
Getting What You Want, Without Nagging* Driving a Car Safely:
A Skill You CAN Acquire* Telephone Skills:
How to Hang Up* Water Retention:
Fact or Fat* Oil and Gasoline:
Your Car Needs BOTH* TV Remotes:
For Men Only
Ohh, god, it’s funny because it’s true. But go ahead and give women their special just-for-girls education lite – you’ll most certainly see less of that attitude once women are at home doing their duty by God and country. And the dumber we get, the funnier that men who laugh and stuff like that will get. Everyone wins!
Trigonometry will not make a woman happy in marriage, understanding of men surely will.
Being the math/science geek that I am, doing Trig – and Calculus, Geometry, Algebra, Statistics, Physics, etc. – tends to give me warm fuzzies.
Granted, I don’t see how this will help in my as-yet-non-existent marriage (except for the obvious practicalities of balancing a checkbook and being able to strip and repair electrical wires with ease), but’s it’s served me well so far, so I don’t plan on going all “Eternal Sunshine…” and erasing it all anytime soon.
When the Larry Summers of the world start saying the shit they do, I get all upset and defensive and feel guilty for not going further with my physics degree. When idiots like this write stuff that suggests I majored in a math intensive science simply because I was tricked or pressured into doing so, I can’t help but simply laugh my ass off.
The best thing my sixth grade teacher ever did was give me algebra problems to work on. School was usually good and all, but that was like being told to just go play instead of doing work.
Also, I am famous throughout my entire graduate program for the kickass homemade bread I sometimes bring to school on Mondays, so I know for a fact that you can learn to cook insanely elaborate things AND get a degree at the same time.
My (limited) graduate school experience suggests that knowing how to make at least one kickass dish/drink is an unwritten prerequisite for graduation.
And if you don’t believe me, check out my 300-comment thread where a guy whines repeatedly that a few wrongful rape convictions compared to an ocean of unreported rapes means that we totally have to treat rape victims as lying whores until proven otherwise by, oh, I dunno, four male witnesses or something before we can even think about convicting more guilty men.
Hmph. I don’t know, that implies that there is such thing as rape. What if those four men are plotting with her?
Seriously, it is, at best, completely lame.
Hey, I’m collecting those for the time when the oil all runs out and we find ourselves reverting to an agrarian existence.
First you use it as lineing for the chicken coop, then as a back up for wood burning furnaces. Cosmo has a million and one uses, the only thing is that none of them involve reading the damn thing.
If a girl wants to marry and become a homemaker one day, she should take time to prepare herself for her future profession.
If it’s that fucking difficult then surely there should be some sort of test to stop the unqualified amateur from accidentally baking their husbands to death while they iron shirts for an uncooked loaf of bread that they’re left to rest in a big comfy chair next to the fire.
Three things I don’t get about this artcle:
1) why she assumes all women prefer to be married than to have careers
2) why she assumes women will be better served by understanding men than by marrying men who understand them
3) what the fuck she expects the educational system to do about the “understanding men” thing.
she won’t be able to have a successful marriage if she is ignorant about men
Wow. That one is a doozy. Women only have enough room in their pretty little heads for one subject, and devotion to math takes up what little space there is, so they’ll NEVER learn that men don’t make passes at girls in math classes! Heh.
Hasn’t she noticed that lots of women, even married women, in fact even married women with children have jobs? Even jobs which require taking classes in cooking and “what men are like”.
I seriously do not understand why trigonometry wouldn’t make a woman happier in marriage, and out of it too, for that matter.
Of course, that works equally well if you regender it. I’m at a loss, indeed, to understand how most academic subjects might make anyone happy in his or her marriage.
Oh, wait, I get it, it doesn’t matter if a man is happy in his marriage, because he’s not actually supposed to participate in it, while a woman is expected to do nothing else.
Amanda Marcotte:
What if those four men are plotting with her?
Don’t be silly, men and women never interact outside the bedroom.
Jeez, I grew up in a family that believed this. I got a nice Christian boy to be engaged to. . . for three years before he dumped me and within six months married a girl he had known for three weeks. My family was a bit disappointed in me for not fighting to keep the relationship. They’re even more disappointed that the man I’m with now has agreed, on MY request, never to propose a wedding. Eventually my father has accepted that I am “living in sin” with my mate, even though the two of us are planning a rather long life together.
The kicker came a week ago. After several months of unemployment, I was all exited that I finally got hired at a restaurant as a cashier. My father began asking about my mate’s income. I told him it was none of my business, my mate and I split the bills and his half is taken care of, but he was extremely comfortable. My father suggested that I become a house-girlfriend while I’m in college and let the Male of the house support me. The Male and I both cracked up.
Honestly, I’d love to be a housewife. I’d like the kind of job where all of my needs are met, and all I have to do is cook, clean, and spread my legs. If my mate and I breed, I probably will have to stay home so I can home school them. As of right now, He’s working hard to save up money for his own college, while I am a full-time student.
He’s a trucker, it hurts him a lot never to be home. Why the f*** would I ask him to spend all of that tuition money to support me while he’s in a job we both hate, when in a few years we could both have better paying jobs we like and be together? Because it’s the natural way? Him and me not together is as much of an insult to nature as I can think of.
I do understand my man. I will not use him like that. My mother was a housewife, but she was a HOMEMAKER. She kept the house cleaned, in repair, and educated both of her children and other people’s kids. She taught me how to remodel a room, install electrical fixtures, dissect a frog, work an algebra problem, and hem my own pants. The best example of the “housewives” I meet sits in front of the television watching HGTV all day while Hubby is at work, complaining about how useless he is because he can’t afford a twenty thousand dollar bathroom for her. When he gets home, she tosses him a TV dinner and yells at him to take out the trash. Is THIS the natural way?
If I have to become a stay-at-home female, by the Goddess I will treat it as a real job. My mate deserves it. As I do not have to right now, it’s better for us both that I have a paycheck.