I’ve been seeing alot of people on feminist board and blogs since the whole Blowjob hoo-haa, talking about how there’s these unreasonably “anti-sex” feminists who are trying to take away people’s blow jobs and blah blah blah…
but the thing is, all they can point to is the one or two commenters over in the I Blame The Patriarchy threads who considered fellatio an act which they felt really uncomfortable calling “empowering” or “feminist”, and do you know what? So what if they do feel uncomfortable about submissive sexual acts? There are valid feminist reason to dislike and object to women engaging in submissive sex, and those commenters had highly valid feminist reason to consider fellatio giving both a sumissive sexual act and an entirely abusive patriarchal one too.
That’s why the fact that the ones who were objecting to fellatio were either lesbians or had experienced fellatio only as a highly painful act of sexual abuse was important.
A lesbian shouldn’t suck dick, no one can argue with that point because it’s 100% correct, lesbians who suck dick are being abused by the patriarchy (also true), a lesbian who sucks dick and says it’s an empowering act is a deluded fool of the first order (unarguably so).
Let me go out on a limb here and supersize the point: All actually submissive, i.e. power imbalanced, sexual acts are patriarchal and should not be done or okayed by feminists.
HOWEVER, actual “submissive” sexual roleplaying of the BDSM type should not be considered actually submissive. The existence of safe words in such submissive roleplaying means that there is a level of power posessed by the “submissive” participant over the dominant one that is often lacking in heterosexual acts that are supposeded to be equal – as the abuse victims in the IBTP thread illustrated quite well, the blowjobs they were familiar with were incredibly abusive because there was no real way for them to say “I don’t like this/don’t want to do this/this makes me uncomfortable/cause me pain” and to stop the abusive acts, a power imbalanced situation which, if it was found in a full on dungeons & dragqueen dominatrixes sort of situation would cause pretty much everyone, including members of the BDSM community, to go “eww, that’s so icky and wrong!”
Because it really is.
Some acts are abusive because they’re not being done properly, but some acts are just inherently abusive and the line between them is generally one that is pretty clearly defined by a power imbalance that inherently favors men and makes the act very open to abuse by those men, who it must be pointed out will, more often than not, be patriarchal scum bags, in the bedroom if no where else. the lesson of the whole blowjob thing is not that “anything goes in the feminist bedroom” or that sex is not, as many of the so called “anti-sex” commenters at Twisty’s lamented and have been partially proved right about, up for feminist and patriarchy blaming examination, because that way madness and painful corset/high heel combos lie.
So what if highheels make you look sexy and feeling sexy makes you feel empowered, they’re crippling and physically dangerous, if you need highheels to look sexy then you’re an ugly sow and an ugly sow with (understandable, given that you’re a female pig in highheels) self esteem issues if you need them to feel empowered. sucking the patriarchy’s cock doesn’t make you empowered, it merely means that you’re now an acceptable part of the system of patriarchal oppression and thus granted equivalent privelages to go with it, privelage is not empowerment, it’s a golden cage that traps and suffocates you.
Feminism is, first and foremost, about identifying and avoiding, with an eye to destoying and making into history, abuse by men of women in society, and liking sex and having sex whenever possible because, woo, it’s fun! Does not mean that every sexual act is okay and not patriarchal, however like with all acts of personal liberty, the key rule should be that every and all acts should be presumed to be okay until something objectionable about it can found, and to ensure that, feminists should always be able to criticise, and be free to examine for patriarchal abuse, every single sexual act possible.
And sexual acts (from blow jobs to spanking to bukkake to plain ol’ missionary position sex) where there is a REAL – not roleplayed, not make believe because the illusion of being in charge turns a guy on (you can be squicked by that btw, I know I am, I just don’t feel you can really object to it as a feminist because it’s squicky) – power imbalance, not to mention misogyny and obligation involved, are wrong and abusive.
Note that even cunninglingus can be patriarchal in the wrong mouth, there are guys out there who’ve scared women away from cunninglingus because when they eat pussy, it’s not an act designed to please a woman, it’s an act they do because hugh heffner told them that REAL men eat pussy (and that cunninglingus only involves jabbing your tongue inside the vagina and wiggling it about abit), and so cunninglingus becomes this act of male ego stroking that is not enjoyable for the women on the end of those dicks, and often comes with full blown obligatory fellatio ontop of all that other nastiness.
In a world were even cunninglingus can be patriarchal, blowjobs, bukkake and high heels are all up for examination and critiscism, and when a woman is doing something patriarchal and calling it “liberating”, well that’s bullshit too and they should be called on it, and if a criticism is invalid or wrong headed, well then that should called out too.
Use your heads people, there’s a middle ground between patriarchy affirming anti-sex puritanical idiocy and anything goes patriarchy affirming idiocy, and that middle ground IS simply called “Feminism” by those in the know.
Thank you. So perfect.
That was great, I love your rants.
But I have a question about high heels. I mostly wear flats for comfort, but I do love heels on occaision. However, I’m also 5’11″ and even low heels put me over 6′. So does the fact that I do feel powerful in heels, not so much because of the sexiness factor, but because I just like being tall, make me a bad feminist?
[...] After my recent post, “Sometimes a blow job is just a blow job,” I’ve run across a few other pieces on the ‘Net tackling the issues raised in Bussel’s column. Amanda Marcotte at Pandagon thinks Bussel’s article is an attack against “strawfeminists.” Meanwhile, over at PunkAssBlog, R. Mildred’s “Sex positivity doesn’t mean sex stupidty” makes some very similar arguments. [...]
The problem lies in judging the acts of others. For any woman to say “I’m uncomfortable with blowjobs” is fine. To say that a person who likes giving head can’t be a feminist is a bit much, though, as is the insistence that it can only be degrading.
Why shouldn’t we praise women who find their own sexual fulfillment in whatever way pleases them? as a gay man (and one who considers himself a feminist, or at the very least sympathetic to the cause) I have to say that yes, sucking cock can be empowering.
Not gonna lie, I definitely enjoyed that.
As for the heels discussion, ks, I think the ones being implicated are the uncomfortable, pointy streetwalker kinds that identify the wearer as a member of the sex class. I don’t think that feminism would take issue with the massive platform boots that I, as an electro-industrial kid, wear. Foot not bound or squeezed into an uncomfortable position or angle, just elevated. Which makes everyone else extremely uncomfortable because I’m 6’0 when I’m barefoot. It makes me giggle to horrify people so, though I’m forced to wonder why a tall woman is such a threat to people.
I have much much taller boots than this, too.
Suckitude– it doesn’t show the picture of the boots I put in. Eh, link:
http://images.vixensandangels.com/images/Shoes/NRdestroyer72.jpeg
Yeah, excellent post. BDSM with the right person can hardly be called submissive in a patriarchical sense. I know and my girlfriend knows it all stops when either one of us wants it to. Thus we are both empowered and neither one us submits to something they don’t want to.
I hope this doesn’t turn into the blow-job fracas again. Though the cunnilingus rumpus might be nice.
Dykonoclast,
I would kill for some pointy-toed, fuck-me heels for a 6’5″ man (as long as they don’t pinch tooooo much). I love wearing a good heel; my stride is longer …I feel different, more confident. However, they aren’t the easiest thing to find in a men’s size 13, and I don’t feel like putting up with the harrassment walking down the street. Then again, I’m not sure I want to be 6’8″ or 6’9″…getting onto the train is hard enough already. Grrrrr.
Well, I really disagree, especially with this statement:
I’m not sure what to make of this kind of attack against femme women. For one thing, it reminds me of men who make these claims against feminists. We must all be ugly sows for wanting equality. For another, it reminds me of anti-feminist prudes who say, “No, no. Nice girls don’t do that. Only bad girls with low self-esteem wear slutty clothes or sleep around.”
I used to have real self-esteem issues. I was worried about what everyone thought of me. Now that I’ve grown up, I believe that doing what you want, with little or no thought of the opinion of others, is a truly feminist act. It really disturbs me that at least one commenter on this thread has asked for R. Mildred’s permission to wear high heels. Fuck that.
I don’t think that was R. Mildred’s point, Erika. You don’t have to ask permission to do what you want. Just that some practices have detrimental affects on women, and for those who feel forced into it, that is a bad thing. And high heels do terrible things to your spinal column. That’s a fact. If you can live with it, more power to you. You’ll need it.
‘k, once more feeling the need to represent for the lesbians who do like blowjobs. (no, they don’t have to be the flesh-and-blood variety).
seriously. One thing that’s really irked me about this whole mess is the resurg’d notion that “well of “COURSE lesbians find (sexact with men) disgusting!” Erm, no? not necessarily? lesbian=! finds men particularly icky (or gives a crap one way or another, at best);” lesbian=”prefers fucking women.”
at least in my world.
um. missionary is submission. wow. i’m sorry. i thought i was getting off, not submitting to anyone. shit. personally, with so many men i’ve met insisting i get on top so they don’t have to do all the work, I’ve been starting to see women on top as a patriarchal sex act. heh.
[...] Of course this is nothing new, all oppressive systems do something like that, usually masking the oppression with talk about “culture” or “tradition”, both of which are inherently “good” things despite the oppression and hate and violence that such words end up associated with them. In America it’s most obvious with the homobigot fundie types, but in the last post I added something that, I admit, was an intentional provocation, designed to probe harshly at the edge of the Highheel spot, that place where way too many feminists will fight for their right to fuck their leg muscles, tendons, toes, ankles and spinal column up, more often than not in the name of attracting the attention of objectifying men. That’s not why all women wear highheels, but it’s certainly why the abuse positive women like Dowd and Wonkette and Bussel wear them. [...]
I’m lost.
Since when was fellatio a “submissive” act?
Some people have WAY too much time on their anxious-to-be-offended-and-think-they’re-oppressed hands.
Well, if the person receiving the blowjob thinks of it as degrading to the person giving it, and the person receiving gets off on that degradation, I think that is a problem. We’ve gone into this on other blogs at length (see link to Twisty’s blog in R. Mildred’s post).
Erika, how do I know whether you’re being empowered or submitting to the Patriarchy? Sandwich board?
I wasn’t asking permission to wear heels. I’ll wear them whenever I want and damn anyone who tries to stop me. I was trying to make a joke that obviously didn’t come across the way I meant it.
Well, but I’ve learned that trying to figure out what’s going on in someone else’s head is generally pretty pointless. You can ask them, of course; and choose to believe their answer or not.
I was going to write something abot some people having debasement fantasies, and that doesn’t necessarily reflect any self-esteem issues, or history of abuse, and I think it’s pretty fucked-up that that’s what lots of people assume… but, to bring up such a topic would probably get me a flogging, and not the fun kind.
I’m with Amber here.
Judging the sex lives of others against some imagined scale of right and wrong is stupid and dangerous when the religious right do it, why is it any different when a small minority of feminists do it?
If women are to be in charge of their own lives, how can we not allow them to be in charge of their own sexuality? There’s just something offensively patronizing about assuming you understand a woman’s motivations more than she does.
Well, Grendel, if you refuse to even question *why* you might want to do things, and whether or not there’s something culturally binding in them, then you’re just as restricted as any religious righty – and just as restrictING when you try to shut down the discussion because it makes you feel uncomfortable!
Which was EXACTLY what was offensive about Twisty’s original post on fellatio. It’s up to the individual to determine the individual’s own desires. Declaring what other’s desires are, or should be, is authoritarian.
Then the issue becomes who gets to define where that middle ground is? Seems to me that conforming to someone else’s puritanical ideal about any given sex act is merely trading one owner for another. Only I get to decide what I like and what feels good. I get to choose what I want to do sexually and with whom. Anything less is something less than “Feminism,” imho.
Amber, I totally agree with you that knowing the motivations of people is hard sometimes. That’s why I like to stress that you should have sex with someone you feel you can trust. Something like a blowjob occuring under the heading of BDSM isn’t degrading, but uplifting for both partners if they both enjoy it. The point is that it’s something you work out as individuals with your partner. And if your partner isn’t willing to be open and talk about the sex you two are going to have together, they might not be the partner you think they are. The key word is “partner.” Meaning you are working together towards mutual pleasure. Thinking of sex as a team effort generally solves a lot of the issues relating to the inherent problem of knowing the other person’s motivations. Choosing someone who thinks of sex that will probably solve a lot of the patriarchical issues of sex.
Last sentence should be:
Choosing someone who thinks of sex that way will probably solve a lot of the patriarchical issues of sex.
Well said. Good to see someone weighing in on the discussion who seems to see both sides.
Oh, and I’m not giving up my heels for anyone. I like being able to stand at between 6’2″ and 6’5″. I’m not afraid of the fact that I have a shoe fetish.
That said, I’m not going to pretend that it’s a good idea to wear them constantly, that they aren’t bad for my back, and that they do make certain things like running difficult (although I can cross a cattle grid in them). I like them despite all that, for my own reasons, and I’m not too offended by people not automatically knowing those reasons. People are free to assume what they like about my shoes, and if queried I will explain my reasons for wearing them.
The only time I’m going to get pissed by anyone challenging my heel-wearing is if they dismiss or ignore that explanation and rationale, because then they cross the line into assuming they know what goes on in my head more than I do. I think a few people felt that way over the Great Blowjob Incident of 2006, although I didn’t necessarily see it.
MAJeff: http://www.funkefeet.com/ sell fetish heels up to a US 14, and is delightfully devoid of the trashy porn-style imagery that usually decorates such sites.
MAJeff,
There used to be a store in Waltham that carried up to mens 14 in heels. I don’t think its there anymore though, I think they were moving south along 128 but don’t remember where. They were the only place I could get non-standard type hose (for women) in a pinch on a Sat afternoon when I didn’t have time to run up to Burlington back in 95-96.
Someone at Friends Landing in Haverhill could probably give you a line on where to pick some up now.
I find I’m with Amber, Grendel, Foolishowl and Cheryl. I find other people telling me what I should enjoy sexually, and therefore what I should be ashamed of if it happens to be something else, terribly repressive and offinsive, not to mention none of their business (unless it includes exhabitionism and I inflict it on them without permission, warning or in an inappropriate setting, all just rude IMO).
[...] And I don’t mind being proved wrong by the way, half of the points I throw out there I expect to be proved wrong, the ones I don’t aer of course the ones I most enjoy being proved wrong about though, for instance I am both weirded out and in sheer awe at the whole variance of human sexual practices by Belledame222’s correction in one of the pre-sex melee posts, that some lesbians like performing fellatio was a new one to me, one I’m almost too scared to inquire about (if you have a post explaining the whys and wherefors Belledame I wouldn’t mind knowing about it though, I am a curious cat indeed), and her point about the incorrect nature of the idea that lesbians find sexual acts with men disgusting is a good point (though not one I actually made, like how I never said that missionary position was a submissive act (B|L) nor how submissive fellatio apparently is (I have in fact argued otherwise, Darklady, but you know, don’t read what I actually said or anything people, piss me off until I go out of my way to give you something substantial to hate please, I like fucking with your heads) especially as it is part of the classic “man-hating lesbian” canard, and you can’t publically flog a canard enough for my tastes (I denounce my inherently oppressive sexual canard flogging kinkiness in all its forms btw, because that adds an extra level of taboo based juiciness to it all, mwoar). [...]
[...] But using them as an insult just stinks of the classic (oppressor created usually) divisive Us/Other dichotomy, will radfems work with us while they’re farting around trying to organize their doomed revolution? yes/no? If yes then they’re feminists, and if you have doctrinal differences with them then argue them, draw them into the neccesary argeuments and debates if neccesary, don’t sit on your blog going on and on about how foolish and bad radical feminism is on your blog in what amounts to little more than an insufferably stuck up act of marxist feminist auto-fellatio. If they won’t argue or they keep trying to screw poeple over rather than actually face criticisms of their often whacked-out-to-jerusalem-and-back theories based on selective bias and willful dismissal of the oppression of homosexuals, POC and the working classes, then fair enough, ignore them, don’t continually discuss how flawed they are because they object to orgasms, just ignore them – it’s like when erika declared that I’ve managed to convince ks that she needs my permission to wear highheels, when did I get that power? Who gave me that power? ks would have been the only one who could have given me veto rights over her shoes, but if she had been doing that (and she wasn’t) I would have laughed her off PAB, I’m not going to be anyone’s ideologue, if I say something that leads someone to change their actions in someway, and it’s a good sort of change, well good for them. I’m not going to get an inflated head or think that I’m a good person or even a smart person who’s words people must obey, ffs, who am I to tell anyone what to do? Who gives me power to force change upon people’s lives? Why do I have to tell other people this? Surely my total pissant nature as a blogger shows this to be an obvious and inherent fact of whatever I write? [...]
[...] [1] Which is what R Mildred and Amanda call for in a sense, though they don’t put it in these terms. They think, to be a feminist, you have to consciously think about that blow job or facial and remember that, if you do it, you are engaging in submissive sexual activities. And if you talk about them publicly, then you’re reproducing sexism not just in the bedroom, but in public. They want to see a world where we consciously consider how we participate in the reproduction of sexism and then act on our deliberations. [...]