Comments on: Turns out, marrying just anybody is no longer a workable long-term solution. http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/ Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:10:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Courtney http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-71040 Courtney Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:20:08 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-71040 I must say... I really don't think this is a gender-specific thing. I am the child of two married parents, and my mother is the one who decides what we eat and when, what we do, who we talk to, when someone gets special treatment (like foot rubs), where we go and when, etc. Feminism so often points toward the evils of men, but it doesn't always have to be that way and I don't see this as an 'oppressed women' issue. All people in a coupled relationship should have enough respect for their other half to be considerate and understanding, and if it takes a little extra effort, so be it. I must say… I really don’t think this is a gender-specific thing. I am the child of two married parents, and my mother is the one who decides what we eat and when, what we do, who we talk to, when someone gets special treatment (like foot rubs), where we go and when, etc.

Feminism so often points toward the evils of men, but it doesn’t always have to be that way and I don’t see this as an ‘oppressed women’ issue. All people in a coupled relationship should have enough respect for their other half to be considerate and understanding, and if it takes a little extra effort, so be it.

]]> By: Kyso K http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69915 Kyso K Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:26:49 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69915 <i>And yes it was the guy and not my expectations of myself. Because I also let him drag the break-up into a two month affair where he tried to get me back.</i> You know how I retracted permission for him to treat me like that? I was a ball busting superbitch. The guy was so persistent, and not listening, that he didnt leave until he pentulantly whined "I guess I just loved you more than you ever loved me" and even though this was probably not true, seeing as I was the one who inititated the relationship and I spent months trying to adapt or fix it even when i knew it was doomed, I just said, "Yeah, guess so". If that's what it takes to negotiate and reason in a relationship, then fuck that shit. And yes it was the guy and not my expectations of myself. Because I also let him drag the break-up into a two month affair where he tried to get me back.

You know how I retracted permission for him to treat me like that? I was a ball busting superbitch. The guy was so persistent, and not listening, that he didnt leave until he pentulantly whined “I guess I just loved you more than you ever loved me” and even though this was probably not true, seeing as I was the one who inititated the relationship and I spent months trying to adapt or fix it even when i knew it was doomed, I just said, “Yeah, guess so”.

If that’s what it takes to negotiate and reason in a relationship, then fuck that shit.

]]> By: Clark http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69848 Clark Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:08:52 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69848 Kyso makes some good points --- men do need more emotional support than women (partly because men are socialized not to seek emotional support outside of the home), and men are socialized to expect things from women and from marriage. However, in almost any situation involving more than one person all the people contribute to the situation. Case in point: Kyso says And yes it was the guy and not my expectations of myself. Because <strong>I also let him</strong> drag the break-up into a two month affair where he tried to get me back. Here, the guy acted like a jerk, and Kyso LET HIM. Maybe because it was easier, or maybe because it was the pattern she was used to. The point is, yes it depends on the guy, but it also depends on the dynamic. Marriage, both in a legal sense and in a practical and emotional one, is a contract (except for the legal issues, any relationship is a contract). You can negotiate expectations and consequences. Kyso makes some good points — men do need more emotional support than women (partly because men are socialized not to seek emotional support outside of the home), and men are socialized to expect things from women and from marriage. However, in almost any situation involving more than one person all the people contribute to the situation.

Case in point: Kyso says

And yes it was the guy and not my expectations of myself. Because I also let him drag the break-up into a two month affair where he tried to get me back.

Here, the guy acted like a jerk, and Kyso LET HIM. Maybe because it was easier, or maybe because it was the pattern she was used to. The point is, yes it depends on the guy, but it also depends on the dynamic.

Marriage, both in a legal sense and in a practical and emotional one, is a contract (except for the legal issues, any relationship is a contract). You can negotiate expectations and consequences.

]]> By: redjuniper http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69821 redjuniper Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:58:47 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69821 Reading this post and the following comments gave me a eureka moment. I know this post is about marriage, but it really applies to all relationships. I've been co-habitating with a guy for several years. He is a great person, so I have been confused at my surges of anger and resentment. Lightbulb!! He expects all his needs to come first, and whenever I assert myself, it's just like the original poster mentioned: pouting, resentment, guilt, and even worse, anger. It has gotten to the point where he really assumes that's just how it's supposed to be. It doesn't help that he makes more money than me, because that just increases his entitlement exponentially. Then he feels magnanimous when he offers, once, to let me pick what to eat. Even then he pouts if it's not to his liking. I get that fire-breathing fury sometimes too. I moved to be with him, twice. I have finally got tired of having my needs shoved in a corner, but like others, fear the emotional fallout. I am emotionally fragile too. I used to give way all the time to avoid conflict and guilt, but the work I put into it is just not worth it anymore. It's nearing the end, heralded by the comment (this is verbatim by the way) "I only want you to be happy -- as long as it doesn't interfere with my happiness". I don't want him to be miserable, but it would be nice not being the only one compromising. Reading this post and the following comments gave me a eureka moment. I know this post is about marriage, but it really applies to all relationships. I’ve been co-habitating with a guy for several years. He is a great person, so I have been confused at my surges of anger and resentment. Lightbulb!! He expects all his needs to come first, and whenever I assert myself, it’s just like the original poster mentioned: pouting, resentment, guilt, and even worse, anger. It has gotten to the point where he really assumes that’s just how it’s supposed to be. It doesn’t help that he makes more money than me, because that just increases his entitlement exponentially. Then he feels magnanimous when he offers, once, to let me pick what to eat. Even then he pouts if it’s not to his liking. I get that fire-breathing fury sometimes too. I moved to be with him, twice. I have finally got tired of having my needs shoved in a corner, but like others, fear the emotional fallout. I am emotionally fragile too. I used to give way all the time to avoid conflict and guilt, but the work I put into it is just not worth it anymore. It’s nearing the end, heralded by the comment (this is verbatim by the way) “I only want you to be happy — as long as it doesn’t interfere with my happiness”. I don’t want him to be miserable, but it would be nice not being the only one compromising.

]]> By: Dana http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69180 Dana Thu, 19 Jun 2008 01:42:01 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69180 stumbleupon.com. It's linksharing type site that works through a browser toolbar. Click button, get cool website. I "stumbled" your post just now. Somebody must have recently posted it to the site. As long as I'm commenting, let me say thanks for the post! I work harder than I have to in avoiding taking my wife and my privilege in our relationship for granted, and it's good to get reminders that "working harder than I need to" pretty much means nothing. It's setting the bar *way* too low for myself if I hope to do my part. stumbleupon.com. It’s linksharing type site that works through a browser toolbar. Click button, get cool website. I “stumbled” your post just now. Somebody must have recently posted it to the site.

As long as I’m commenting, let me say thanks for the post! I work harder than I have to in avoiding taking my wife and my privilege in our relationship for granted, and it’s good to get reminders that “working harder than I need to” pretty much means nothing. It’s setting the bar *way* too low for myself if I hope to do my part.

]]> By: Kyso Kisaen http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69116 Kyso Kisaen Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:26:35 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69116 What is stumble? What is stumble?

]]> By: china blue http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69075 china blue Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:19:51 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-69075 HI, I found you on Stumble. Boy, did this post resonate. I've been doing a lot of soul-searching, trying to work out why my relationships thus far haven't worked out. It boils down to: Man asserts needs. I meet them. I assert needs. Needs go ignored and unacknowledged. When it comes to asserting what I want from a man, I don't mince words - but I'm no battleaxe. I ask nicely. I communicate. I don't expect the moon on a stick. And still... nothing. I leave the relationship, and the guy hasn't taken any responsibility - in fact, he's SHOCKED. Anyway, men need to get with the program: if you don't want to be nagged, don't wait to be asked the 6574th time to put out the rubbish. If you and your partner both work outside the home, get your head around doing your share of the housework too. Long story short, look up 'equal' in the dictionary, and make it your business to treat your woman like one. Breakups hurt, divorces cost a lot of money; get your head out of your backside and realise that you have a good thing. Don't wait until she's out the door to make things work. It's too late. She'll be happy without you, you'll be crying into your beer. Is that what you want? HI, I found you on Stumble. Boy, did this post resonate.

I’ve been doing a lot of soul-searching, trying to work out why my relationships thus far haven’t worked out. It boils down to: Man asserts needs. I meet them. I assert needs. Needs go ignored and unacknowledged.

When it comes to asserting what I want from a man, I don’t mince words - but I’m no battleaxe. I ask nicely. I communicate. I don’t expect the moon on a stick. And still… nothing. I leave the relationship, and the guy hasn’t taken any responsibility - in fact, he’s SHOCKED.

Anyway, men need to get with the program: if you don’t want to be nagged, don’t wait to be asked the 6574th time to put out the rubbish. If you and your partner both work outside the home, get your head around doing your share of the housework too. Long story short, look up ‘equal’ in the dictionary, and make it your business to treat your woman like one.

Breakups hurt, divorces cost a lot of money; get your head out of your backside and realise that you have a good thing. Don’t wait until she’s out the door to make things work. It’s too late. She’ll be happy without you, you’ll be crying into your beer. Is that what you want?

]]> By: Blissfully Unaware of my Peril http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-53946 Blissfully Unaware of my Peril Sun, 11 Nov 2007 04:59:28 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-53946 [...] So on the strength of her review I grabbed a copy of Wifework: What Marriage Really Means for Women from the library today. I’ve just finished reading the introduction; it’s all well and good, standard breathless exposition about how married men are generally better off than married women and that couldn’t have anything to do with sexism, could it? Gasp! But in the middle, Maushart throws in a completely gratuitous paean to evolutionary psychology: Imagine a female examining her newly born baby in an effort to determine if he is ‘really hers’. Sexual exclusivity remains at the core of marriage not because men necessarily wish to repress women, but because they wish to know who their children are. The control of women’s sexuality is simply a by-product of this wish - a bonus, if you will. [...] [...] So on the strength of her review I grabbed a copy of Wifework: What Marriage Really Means for Women from the library today. I’ve just finished reading the introduction; it’s all well and good, standard breathless exposition about how married men are generally better off than married women and that couldn’t have anything to do with sexism, could it? Gasp! But in the middle, Maushart throws in a completely gratuitous paean to evolutionary psychology: Imagine a female examining her newly born baby in an effort to determine if he is ‘really hers’. Sexual exclusivity remains at the core of marriage not because men necessarily wish to repress women, but because they wish to know who their children are. The control of women’s sexuality is simply a by-product of this wish - a bonus, if you will. [...]

]]> By: God ordained it to be so, and even though it’s not we’re all going to have to act as though it is. at PunkAssBlog.com http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-45574 God ordained it to be so, and even though it’s not we’re all going to have to act as though it is. at PunkAssBlog.com Sat, 14 Jul 2007 23:49:06 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-45574 [...] Prolly has nothing to do with wife work, so certainly you female Boundless readers shouldn’t go to your library and pick up a copy of Wifework, by Susan Maushart. Certainly women in a Boundless-approved marriage wouldn’t be stuck at home with the kids all day and dying to talk to an adult when her husband got home. There is absolutely no way that is where this stereotype comes from. Instead, it’s just a God-ordained irreconcilable difference that you’ll just have to live with, because God, in his infinite wisdom, basically wants you to be vaguely unhappy but not exactly miserable because this is the system that allows him to bestow book royalties on his servant, James C Dobson, Ph.D., author of What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women. [...] [...] Prolly has nothing to do with wife work, so certainly you female Boundless readers shouldn’t go to your library and pick up a copy of Wifework, by Susan Maushart. Certainly women in a Boundless-approved marriage wouldn’t be stuck at home with the kids all day and dying to talk to an adult when her husband got home. There is absolutely no way that is where this stereotype comes from. Instead, it’s just a God-ordained irreconcilable difference that you’ll just have to live with, because God, in his infinite wisdom, basically wants you to be vaguely unhappy but not exactly miserable because this is the system that allows him to bestow book royalties on his servant, James C Dobson, Ph.D., author of What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women. [...]

]]> By: Tori http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-43878 Tori Fri, 15 Jun 2007 06:24:49 +0000 http://punkassblog.com/2006/06/18/turns-out-marrying-just-anybody-is-no-longer-a-workable-long-term-solution/#comment-43878 I got here along a long, wandery trail of links through feminists blogs, which is why I'm posting a comment so late. But I just *had* to say that, OMG, this is so exactly my current relationship right now that I'm near tears faced by the realization that I'm not alone in this. I don't know what I'm going to do with this relationship; I know it has to end eventually but right now I'm so psychologically frail I don't know if I could handle the emotional fallout of the event. What drives me crazy is that he just *expects* me to do all these things -- it's just assumed that I'll cook and wash dishes and tend to him emotionally or give way when he pouts *just because*. I am seriously thinking of swearing off men completely after this relationship and fostering my latent attraction to women, because I'm sick of having to deal with men always coming into relationships from this position of privilege. At least with another women we'd start off equal. . . I got here along a long, wandery trail of links through feminists blogs, which is why I’m posting a comment so late. But I just *had* to say that, OMG, this is so exactly my current relationship right now that I’m near tears faced by the realization that I’m not alone in this. I don’t know what I’m going to do with this relationship; I know it has to end eventually but right now I’m so psychologically frail I don’t know if I could handle the emotional fallout of the event.
What drives me crazy is that he just *expects* me to do all these things — it’s just assumed that I’ll cook and wash dishes and tend to him emotionally or give way when he pouts *just because*.
I am seriously thinking of swearing off men completely after this relationship and fostering my latent attraction to women, because I’m sick of having to deal with men always coming into relationships from this position of privilege. At least with another women we’d start off equal. . .

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